| Stadium deal agreed 10:01 - Feb 17 with 64639 views | Dr_Winston |
This post has been edited by an administrator |  |
| Pain or damage don't end the world. Or despair, or f*cking beatings. The world ends when you're dead. Until then, you got more punishment in store. Stand it like a man... and give some back. |
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| Stadium deal agreed on 13:27 - Feb 18 with 2224 views | Jackfath |
| Stadium deal agreed on 13:25 - Feb 18 by swancity |
Is that happening |
Is what happening? |  |
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| Stadium deal agreed on 13:28 - Feb 18 with 2220 views | TheResurrection |
| Stadium deal agreed on 12:17 - Feb 18 by max936 |
Seems that Lisa and Andrew are being kept out of the loop on some stuff important stuff at that, so its not fair to chuck it all at their feet in fairness. |
Oh it is mate. When they joined the Trust they should've made it quite bloody clear that they should know about every little thing.
There is no excuse especially if they want to peddle the collective responsibility Bullshit. Seems it's only collective when it suits Stu MacDonald and the other old fogies.
They should literally have had Stu Mac on a stick outside the Liberty by now. |  |
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| Stadium deal agreed on 13:32 - Feb 18 with 2208 views | TheResurrection |
| Stadium deal agreed on 12:45 - Feb 18 by exiledclaseboy |
Literally everything I know about the stadium lease deal is on this thread. |
Andrew, I'm trying to be respectful so apologies in advance if I fall off the wagon here but WTF are you doing about it!??
Talk to me about Stu MacDonald, I've asked two or three times on here if his position is now untenable?
From the outside it looks very much like it is, so what's the inside story? | |
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| Stadium deal agreed on 13:33 - Feb 18 with 2208 views | Darran |
| Stadium deal agreed on 13:28 - Feb 18 by TheResurrection |
Oh it is mate. When they joined the Trust they should've made it quite bloody clear that they should know about every little thing.
There is no excuse especially if they want to peddle the collective responsibility Bullshit. Seems it's only collective when it suits Stu MacDonald and the other old fogies.
They should literally have had Stu Mac on a stick outside the Liberty by now. |
It’s also a shame that Stu never listened to what you had to say in that private meeting you had with him. |  |
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| Stadium deal agreed on 13:37 - Feb 18 with 2192 views | Jackfath |
Maybe it's time Chrissy organised a private meeting with Andrew? | |
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| Stadium deal agreed on 13:40 - Feb 18 with 2180 views | Darran |
| Stadium deal agreed on 13:37 - Feb 18 by Jackfath |
Maybe it's time Chrissy organised a private meeting with Andrew? |
I loves a plan. | |
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| Stadium deal agreed on 13:42 - Feb 18 with 2174 views | QJumpingJack |
Pearlman has received a lot of credit in the official statement.
The Trust should be pushing him on why they continue to be ignored on big decisions which impact the club and the fans.
The Americans will run the club by spreadsheet. They have no knowledge of the history of our club apart from JTAK.
The Trust have to question the decisions the Americans make before it is too late. |  | | |
| Stadium deal agreed on 13:45 - Feb 18 with 2165 views | MoscowJack |
| Stadium deal agreed on 12:45 - Feb 18 by exiledclaseboy |
Literally everything I know about the stadium lease deal is on this thread. |
I've got it! I've worked it all out.....
The Trust weren't kept in the loop in the past and were made to look unprofessional and, at best, very incompetent, so they decided to try doing it themselves.
Unfortunately, the "others" are people within their own Board and the fans that they are supposed to represent! | |
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| Stadium deal agreed on 13:48 - Feb 18 with 2157 views | Darran |
| Stadium deal agreed on 13:42 - Feb 18 by QJumpingJack |
Pearlman has received a lot of credit in the official statement.
The Trust should be pushing him on why they continue to be ignored on big decisions which impact the club and the fans.
The Americans will run the club by spreadsheet. They have no knowledge of the history of our club apart from JTAK.
The Trust have to question the decisions the Americans make before it is too late. |
I’m not being funny here but are people actually saying it’s the first they’ve heard of this deal?
I know it was signed yesterday but it’s not exactly breaking news. | |
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| Stadium deal agreed on 14:00 - Feb 18 with 2122 views | MoscowJack |
| Stadium deal agreed on 13:48 - Feb 18 by Darran |
I’m not being funny here but are people actually saying it’s the first they’ve heard of this deal?
I know it was signed yesterday but it’s not exactly breaking news. |
Exactly.....the Trust can't say "we weren't kept in the loop" this time. Just certain members of the Trust Board can, which seems bizarre to me!
There's definitely something very wrong with all of this..... | |
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| Stadium deal agreed on 14:06 - Feb 18 with 2108 views | Darran |
| Stadium deal agreed on 14:00 - Feb 18 by MoscowJack |
Exactly.....the Trust can't say "we weren't kept in the loop" this time. Just certain members of the Trust Board can, which seems bizarre to me!
There's definitely something very wrong with all of this..... |
Indeed. | |
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| Stadium deal agreed on 14:19 - Feb 18 with 2081 views | Phil_S |
| Stadium deal agreed on 14:00 - Feb 18 by MoscowJack |
Exactly.....the Trust can't say "we weren't kept in the loop" this time. Just certain members of the Trust Board can, which seems bizarre to me!
There's definitely something very wrong with all of this..... |
If he detail and the benefits of the deal have been kept from the Trust then that is just the same problems as before and completely one of the reasons why I said publicly that I felt there was no relationship when I stood down.
Couple of things that alarm me on top is that it has been said that the announcement took everyone by surprise - you would assume that the owners would want the trust backing this ASAP (assuming they do) to assure the fans that it is the right thing for the club. The club and not the shareholders/owners
I dont know who would know within the Trust board (you would assume Stu as a minimum and Alan as well) and it is their responsibility to inform the rest of the board although from experience too many of them will just nod and agree with what is presented (in the main by Stu) - a frustration I have seen so many times over the years.
I am sure that some will just bite back at this because of my time on the board and you are more than welcome to do so but whatever mistakes were made have not been learned from |  | | |
| Stadium deal agreed on 14:37 - Feb 18 with 2041 views | TheResurrection |
| Stadium deal agreed on 14:19 - Feb 18 by Phil_S |
If he detail and the benefits of the deal have been kept from the Trust then that is just the same problems as before and completely one of the reasons why I said publicly that I felt there was no relationship when I stood down.
Couple of things that alarm me on top is that it has been said that the announcement took everyone by surprise - you would assume that the owners would want the trust backing this ASAP (assuming they do) to assure the fans that it is the right thing for the club. The club and not the shareholders/owners
I dont know who would know within the Trust board (you would assume Stu as a minimum and Alan as well) and it is their responsibility to inform the rest of the board although from experience too many of them will just nod and agree with what is presented (in the main by Stu) - a frustration I have seen so many times over the years.
I am sure that some will just bite back at this because of my time on the board and you are more than welcome to do so but whatever mistakes were made have not been learned from |
Andrew and Lisa need to be calling for Stu MacDonald and Alan whatever his name is to stand down with immediate effect.. | |
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| Stadium deal agreed on 14:38 - Feb 18 with 2042 views | exhmrc1 |
| Stadium deal agreed on 14:19 - Feb 18 by Phil_S |
If he detail and the benefits of the deal have been kept from the Trust then that is just the same problems as before and completely one of the reasons why I said publicly that I felt there was no relationship when I stood down.
Couple of things that alarm me on top is that it has been said that the announcement took everyone by surprise - you would assume that the owners would want the trust backing this ASAP (assuming they do) to assure the fans that it is the right thing for the club. The club and not the shareholders/owners
I dont know who would know within the Trust board (you would assume Stu as a minimum and Alan as well) and it is their responsibility to inform the rest of the board although from experience too many of them will just nod and agree with what is presented (in the main by Stu) - a frustration I have seen so many times over the years.
I am sure that some will just bite back at this because of my time on the board and you are more than welcome to do so but whatever mistakes were made have not been learned from |
Looking at this from the outside it appears the decision making has been in the hands of a few and other members are ignored. This isn't how board's work and it happened during your tenure as well it seems. The trust will never regain respect until those leading it are gone. There is a clear need for McDonald and Hamer to go and I also suspect Lewis and Knutsa. There maybe a couple of others. It has become very clear the best option is to sell all the trust shares as the trust clearly doesn't have any say. In that way the supporters would be able to step in should the club fall on hard times. | | | |
| Stadium deal agreed on 14:48 - Feb 18 with 2018 views | MoscowJack |
| Stadium deal agreed on 14:38 - Feb 18 by exhmrc1 |
Looking at this from the outside it appears the decision making has been in the hands of a few and other members are ignored. This isn't how board's work and it happened during your tenure as well it seems. The trust will never regain respect until those leading it are gone. There is a clear need for McDonald and Hamer to go and I also suspect Lewis and Knutsa. There maybe a couple of others. It has become very clear the best option is to sell all the trust shares as the trust clearly doesn't have any say. In that way the supporters would be able to step in should the club fall on hard times. |
You make a lot of sense but let's see what Ux (and any others) say before jumping to too many conclusions.
It does seem to be a completely outrageous situation but we should always wait for the other side of the story but deciding what really has happened. | |
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| Stadium deal agreed on 14:49 - Feb 18 with 2011 views | QJumpingJack |
The fact that the former directors kept The Trust out of the conversations in 15/16 sent a signal to the Americans that the Trust have no importance/don't need to be involved in major decisions for the club and fans. | | | |
| Stadium deal agreed on 14:52 - Feb 18 with 2004 views | Phil_S |
| Stadium deal agreed on 14:37 - Feb 18 by TheResurrection |
Andrew and Lisa need to be calling for Stu MacDonald and Alan whatever his name is to stand down with immediate effect.. |
I fail to see how any decision of this magnitude can be made without a consultation of all shareholders.
Last week we saw some clear interviews of "we have made mistakes in the past but wont repeat them" from the owners and then this statement is released without the Trust seemingly being aware it was coming (or at least the full trust board)
Knowing Andrew and Lisa I suspect they have made their views perfectly clear behind the scenes - not sure demanding that publicly will help although it is hard to see why it would do any more damage to the organisation
It certainly does mean that there is no working relationship | | | |
| Stadium deal agreed on 14:54 - Feb 18 with 1993 views | Phil_S |
| Stadium deal agreed on 14:38 - Feb 18 by exhmrc1 |
Looking at this from the outside it appears the decision making has been in the hands of a few and other members are ignored. This isn't how board's work and it happened during your tenure as well it seems. The trust will never regain respect until those leading it are gone. There is a clear need for McDonald and Hamer to go and I also suspect Lewis and Knutsa. There maybe a couple of others. It has become very clear the best option is to sell all the trust shares as the trust clearly doesn't have any say. In that way the supporters would be able to step in should the club fall on hard times. |
Interestingly although my position meant I was at the heart of the negotiations, I was never afforded any ability to make decisions on behalf of the board (which is how it should be). All decisions that needed to be made were passed back to the board unless there was a mandate in place to do certain things
The lack of that decision making ability was not a reason for standing down but the board not backing my view that the Americans were going to continue in their ways was. | | | |
| Stadium deal agreed on 15:04 - Feb 18 with 1962 views | Vetchfielder |
I'm pi55ed off with this.
The news of the lease arrangement has been around for months and we have been told nothing about it or given any reassurances by the Trust.
I wrote them an email in the middle of November 2017 asking a few questions about the Trust's level of involvement and essentially what protections there were for us in the proposals.
I've had no response to that email and so, in the light of yesterday's announcement, I've just sent it again.
Too late now though isn't it but still would be nice to know.
If this stuff wasn't so important I would give up. |  |
| Proud to have been one of the 231 |
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| Stadium deal agreed on 15:14 - Feb 18 with 1921 views | owainglyndwr |
| Stadium deal agreed on 10:06 - Feb 17 by Dr_Winston |
If we survive I wouldn't be surprised to see attempts to sell soon, especially with the new TV deal in place. |
There was 2 different groups of people looking around the liberty 2 weeks ago.
One group from China the other from Dubai.
Maybe there is something in it 😞 |  | | |
| Stadium deal agreed on 15:29 - Feb 18 with 1883 views | dobjack2 |
| Stadium deal agreed on 14:38 - Feb 18 by exhmrc1 |
Looking at this from the outside it appears the decision making has been in the hands of a few and other members are ignored. This isn't how board's work and it happened during your tenure as well it seems. The trust will never regain respect until those leading it are gone. There is a clear need for McDonald and Hamer to go and I also suspect Lewis and Knutsa. There maybe a couple of others. It has become very clear the best option is to sell all the trust shares as the trust clearly doesn't have any say. In that way the supporters would be able to step in should the club fall on hard times. |
Indeed -
If a majority of the trust board are favouring a certain stance anyone who thinks that a vote of no confidence in officials put forward by minority view board members will achieve anything is whistling Dixie.
If trust members don’t like what certain people on the board are doing then the only way to play is to organise opposition candidates for elections on a reform slate. | | | |
| Stadium deal agreed on 16:09 - Feb 18 with 1813 views | exhmrc1 |
| Stadium deal agreed on 15:29 - Feb 18 by dobjack2 |
Indeed -
If a majority of the trust board are favouring a certain stance anyone who thinks that a vote of no confidence in officials put forward by minority view board members will achieve anything is whistling Dixie.
If trust members don’t like what certain people on the board are doing then the only way to play is to organise opposition candidates for elections on a reform slate. |
this isn't about a vote. At least 2 individuals knew nothing about this. Clearly someone decided to keep this away from other board members and for that those leading the board need to go. | | | |
| Stadium deal agreed on 16:19 - Feb 18 with 1792 views | Swanzay |
| Stadium deal agreed on 16:09 - Feb 18 by exhmrc1 |
this isn't about a vote. At least 2 individuals knew nothing about this. Clearly someone decided to keep this away from other board members and for that those leading the board need to go. |
The Trust have recent past history of this, its simply staggering that not all Trust board members where not either consulted or notified.
It seems that certain Trust board members have a serious superiority complex.
Openness, communication and transparency are still null and void, it seems. |  | | |
| Stadium deal agreed on 16:27 - Feb 18 with 1765 views | dobjack2 |
| Stadium deal agreed on 16:09 - Feb 18 by exhmrc1 |
this isn't about a vote. At least 2 individuals knew nothing about this. Clearly someone decided to keep this away from other board members and for that those leading the board need to go. |
Whilst I agree with you about the moral position it is all about votes. Whoever is responsible for keeping some board members in the dark is unlikely to just put their hands up and walk in my opinion.
The only ways to remove board members that I can see is via an AGM,and nothing happened at the last one, Or via an EGM. It won’t happen through the trust board itself if they have the support of the majority of the board members. | | | |
| Stadium deal agreed on 16:30 - Feb 18 with 1754 views | londonlisa2001 |
Answering a few questions that have been raised in one reply rather than lots:
- yes, I knew that the lease transfer was in the offing as it had been discussed on here a few times.
- any discussions that may have been had around that by the Trust happened before my time. There have been no discussions about it since I have been involved.
- I believed that when details were finalised, they would be passed to the Trust in their role as shareholder and director of the club.
- I assumed that those details and the documentation would be circulated to the Trust board and affiliates for detailed review, discussion and ultimately a vote on what position the Trust should take.
- Since nothing has been mentioned in my time, I assumed that there was nothing imminent. There was absolutely no reason to suppose otherwise.
To reiterate, I found out about this by seeing this thread. I also received an email to that effect from the Trust Chair (after having already seen it on here).
I believe that some members of the Trust board received details and documentation - this was not passed on to me, nor to Andrew. I also believe that the timing took people by surprise, which may account for the lack of discussion and review and circulation of documents beforehand.
I sent a rather strongly worded email to the whole of the Trust board yesterday as soon as I saw what had happened. I also asked to see any documents that were in circulation. As of now, I haven't received any documents nor had any response to my email. I know that Andrew also sent an email.
I have no knowledge of the deal other than what has been said on here. I have read the club statement on the official website as well, and I note that it says "Swans take sole control of the Stadium Management Company" which is interesting, as I had understood from what was said on here previously that the lease was moving to the club, whereas that wording suggests that the lease has remained with Stadco, but the Swans have now acquired Stadco.
Does that matter? Who knows. With property deals, the devil is always in the detail. Length of lease, break clauses, initial rental, rent review frequency and terms, reversion rights, etc etc.
I sit on the board of a FTSE property company, and so know how complex these agreements can be.
I am very unhappy that I was not provided with any info. Not least because, as can be seen on here, there is an expectation that I would be, and that I am somehow to blame for not knowing what is happening.
It's all very well Chris, saying that I, or Andrew, should demand information. Don't you think that we haven't? I have been challenging Board members over any number of issues fairly constantly since becoming involved. I can also say categorically that Andrew has done the same. Some of what I say has an effect, some, quite transparently does not.
All I can do is either decide to say 'f*ck it' and walk away now, or to remain involved and try to have an impact. At the moment, I've chosen the latter as I remain adamant that the Trust need to take action against the sale and I'm doing everything I can to influence that. Hopefully people will see some updates on that over the next few weeks as was promised to members previously.
On this issue, in summary, I believe that the Trust now need to review all documentation very carefully and make a public statement about whether the deal is good, bad or indifferent for the club. But that's just my opinion. Others may disagree, and they may hold the majority view. | | | |
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