| Clydach murders on 09:39 - Oct 27 with 1561 views | whiterock |
John Alan was a well known car thief and would almost certainly have moved in the same circles as Morris, he would have been near 40 at the time of the murders and would not have been up the mountain smoking weed with teenagers, like some suggest. [Post edited 27 Oct 2020 9:46]
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| Clydach murders on 09:41 - Oct 27 with 1559 views | whiterock |
I can't believe i am writing this today 21yrs after losing our Mam, sister Mandy and nieces Katie and Emily. What our family and children have gone through and are still going through has been horrendous. We all love and miss our family so much, and there's never a day goes by when we dont think of them and wish with all our hearts they were still here with us. We have always said and continue to say that there is or never has been any doubt whatsoever that the person who committed these cruel murders was David George Morris .
Throughout both trials we all sat in that court room every single day listening to the horrific injuries and suffering our family endured that night and what they went through will stay with us forever. We heard every bit of evidence against Morris and all the lies he said in court, claiming he was having an affair with my sister is untrue, Mandy was scared of him and use to call him a psycho. He said he met her on the friday morning and went to her house and thats when he left his chain there, this was a total lie because there were witnesses and phone records showing Morris was in his flat and made calls to his partner proving he was nowhere near Mandy's home.
Morris's campaigners claim the E FIT wasnt made public ?? It was in the South Wales Evening post June 29th 2002 !!! The witness who done the E fit and picked out one of the Police officers, said she had never seen him before and yet she went to the same gym as him !!
This along with other evidence and lies was heard by 2 court Judges and 24 jurors and after listening to it all, the right verdict was given in both trials and that was David George Morris was GUILTY.
Morris's supporters claim there to be new evidence, where is this new evidence ??? Three times The Criminal Cases Review Commission has gone through this case. We can't believe that there are still people out there that believe everything they've read in a book, especially as that book was written by someone who didnt attend court or even know Morris, and to claim that he is innocent and to portray him as just a normal 'Jack the lad' couldn't be further from the truth. We are a very close and strong family but No family should ever go through and continue to go through what we have.
During these last few years we have lost our sister Sandra, our brother Robert and our brother in law Ken and it has left us all totally devastated , but i hope they are looking down on us today and see that we will never ever give up fighting for our beautiful Mam, Mandy, Katie and Emily and to continue to make sure DAVID GEORGE MORRIS will never ever be released . | | | |
| Clydach murders on 11:13 - Oct 27 with 1500 views | exhmrc1 |
| Clydach murders on 09:39 - Oct 27 by whiterock |
John Alan was a well known car thief and would almost certainly have moved in the same circles as Morris, he would have been near 40 at the time of the murders and would not have been up the mountain smoking weed with teenagers, like some suggest. [Post edited 27 Oct 2020 9:46]
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I used to manage a youth rugby team. Was very close to some of the players then and still am. They used to talk about the mushies and said you should try them but none of them ever mentioned going up the mountain. There were plenty of other places to take whatever kids used.
It just seems so unlikely that any experienced cop would be walking home after 4 murders. Surely cops would have used a getaway car parked close. The same with walking up from one of the busiest roads in Clydach.
What you have posted from Mandy's sister I posted previously. It is quite clear the family along with the jurors are certain of his guilt.
A few days after the first trial I was in St Helens watching Glamorgan. I went to lunch with 2 people. One was a long standing Evening Post Journalist and the other the father of a girl who had covered the trial for the BBC. The girls father was saying his daughter and the senior BBC reporter were both convinced of Morris guilt. The senior reporter had turned to his daughter whilst awaiting the verdict and said to her I dont know how I am going to be able to announce this if there is a not guilty verdict. He is so clearly guilty. | | | |
| Clydach murders on 12:02 - Oct 27 with 1476 views | whiterock |
| Clydach murders on 11:13 - Oct 27 by exhmrc1 |
I used to manage a youth rugby team. Was very close to some of the players then and still am. They used to talk about the mushies and said you should try them but none of them ever mentioned going up the mountain. There were plenty of other places to take whatever kids used.
It just seems so unlikely that any experienced cop would be walking home after 4 murders. Surely cops would have used a getaway car parked close. The same with walking up from one of the busiest roads in Clydach.
What you have posted from Mandy's sister I posted previously. It is quite clear the family along with the jurors are certain of his guilt.
A few days after the first trial I was in St Helens watching Glamorgan. I went to lunch with 2 people. One was a long standing Evening Post Journalist and the other the father of a girl who had covered the trial for the BBC. The girls father was saying his daughter and the senior BBC reporter were both convinced of Morris guilt. The senior reporter had turned to his daughter whilst awaiting the verdict and said to her I dont know how I am going to be able to announce this if there is a not guilty verdict. He is so clearly guilty. |
I think people need to look at the Wassell case a bit more, what really happened? | | | |
| Clydach murders on 12:27 - Oct 27 with 1448 views | exhmrc1 |
| Clydach murders on 12:02 - Oct 27 by whiterock |
I think people need to look at the Wassell case a bit more, what really happened? |
I dont know what you know about the Wassell's. They are a large group of brothers. I think there are 7 of them in total. Often involved with the police.
There was another incident with Morris I believe involved a woman in a car which I think he went down for a few years before. The fact people refused to testify in the Wassell case indicates what people think outside of this case.
People say there is no motive. If Morris believed his girlfriend was having a gay affair with Mandy or she had been trying to get her to leave him. He certainly resented the 2 girls friendship.
It is known Mandy feared and intensely disliked Morris yet you have some on here who suggest she was having an affair with him something the family and her friends say would never have happened in a million years. | | | |
| Clydach murders on 12:32 - Oct 27 with 1442 views | angryjack |
| Clydach murders on 12:27 - Oct 27 by exhmrc1 |
I dont know what you know about the Wassell's. They are a large group of brothers. I think there are 7 of them in total. Often involved with the police.
There was another incident with Morris I believe involved a woman in a car which I think he went down for a few years before. The fact people refused to testify in the Wassell case indicates what people think outside of this case.
People say there is no motive. If Morris believed his girlfriend was having a gay affair with Mandy or she had been trying to get her to leave him. He certainly resented the 2 girls friendship.
It is known Mandy feared and intensely disliked Morris yet you have some on here who suggest she was having an affair with him something the family and her friends say would never have happened in a million years. |
IF MY AUNTIE HAD BALLS SHE BE MY UNCLE..you assuming things all time..the pigs held evidence back to cover their own...SWP corrupt | | | |
| Clydach murders on 12:38 - Oct 27 with 1438 views | exhmrc1 |
| Clydach murders on 12:32 - Oct 27 by angryjack |
IF MY AUNTIE HAD BALLS SHE BE MY UNCLE..you assuming things all time..the pigs held evidence back to cover their own...SWP corrupt |
So they put the case forward against 3 of their colleagues which the higher echelons of the Crown Prosecution rejected because they were trying to protect their own.
They advised the press they had arrested 3 coppers because they were trying to protect their own.
It is because of their stupid actions above that has created the kind of doubt people had in this case. | | | |
| Clydach murders on 12:48 - Oct 27 with 1429 views | theloneranger |
| Clydach murders on 12:32 - Oct 27 by angryjack |
IF MY AUNTIE HAD BALLS SHE BE MY UNCLE..you assuming things all time..the pigs held evidence back to cover their own...SWP corrupt |
If you believe that the SWP are protecting their own ....
Then WHY did the Lewis brothers with their then solicitor David Hutchinson ( also would become the solicitor to Morris) make formal complaints against 18 police officers of all ranks from constable to Detective Superintendent. They also made a complaint against the Chief Constable of South Wales!!
These complaints included perjury, attempting to pervert the course of justice, wrongful arrest, disclosure of confidential information, inappropriate disclosure of sensitive information, etc.
This doesn't seem a very sensible action to take if you know that the SWP are in your corner and protecting you!! |  |
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| Clydach murders on 13:00 - Oct 27 with 1422 views | Highjack |
| Clydach murders on 12:27 - Oct 27 by exhmrc1 |
I dont know what you know about the Wassell's. They are a large group of brothers. I think there are 7 of them in total. Often involved with the police.
There was another incident with Morris I believe involved a woman in a car which I think he went down for a few years before. The fact people refused to testify in the Wassell case indicates what people think outside of this case.
People say there is no motive. If Morris believed his girlfriend was having a gay affair with Mandy or she had been trying to get her to leave him. He certainly resented the 2 girls friendship.
It is known Mandy feared and intensely disliked Morris yet you have some on here who suggest she was having an affair with him something the family and her friends say would never have happened in a million years. |
Talking about motive, it was striking to me that the killer was apparently down on his hands and knees at one point going through all the videotapes as if he were looking for something. This was presumably after the killing because he had blood on his hands. The generally accepted motive was that Morris was angry because she had refused his sexual advances, but if that’s the case why has he spent so much time in the house afterwards looking through the videotapes? There’s clearly something there that he wants. My first thought was maybe a sex tape or something incriminating. And when he couldn’t find it he set the fires to ensure if it were still in the house it would be destroyed. Either way the documentary didn’t explain this very well. |  |
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| Clydach murders on 13:10 - Oct 27 with 1410 views | Andy1300 |
| Clydach murders on 13:29 - Oct 25 by trampie |
That is the whole point Perch, he might have done it, he might not, but he was convicted, should he have been convicted beyond reasonable doubt, that is why the fuss. |
Exactly! |  |
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| Clydach murders on 13:18 - Oct 27 with 1402 views | Andy1300 |
| Clydach murders on 13:00 - Oct 27 by Highjack |
Talking about motive, it was striking to me that the killer was apparently down on his hands and knees at one point going through all the videotapes as if he were looking for something. This was presumably after the killing because he had blood on his hands. The generally accepted motive was that Morris was angry because she had refused his sexual advances, but if that’s the case why has he spent so much time in the house afterwards looking through the videotapes? There’s clearly something there that he wants. My first thought was maybe a sex tape or something incriminating. And when he couldn’t find it he set the fires to ensure if it were still in the house it would be destroyed. Either way the documentary didn’t explain this very well. |
But the expert categorically said the hand print on the carpet could not be Dai’s | |
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| Clydach murders on 13:43 - Oct 27 with 1390 views | whiterock |
| Clydach murders on 12:48 - Oct 27 by theloneranger |
If you believe that the SWP are protecting their own ....
Then WHY did the Lewis brothers with their then solicitor David Hutchinson ( also would become the solicitor to Morris) make formal complaints against 18 police officers of all ranks from constable to Detective Superintendent. They also made a complaint against the Chief Constable of South Wales!!
These complaints included perjury, attempting to pervert the course of justice, wrongful arrest, disclosure of confidential information, inappropriate disclosure of sensitive information, etc.
This doesn't seem a very sensible action to take if you know that the SWP are in your corner and protecting you!! |
Agree with this and as been said before, there are always rotten apples in any organisation, but a whole police force, I think not, think about it, you might cover for your mate if he has cocked up in work but 4 brutal murders? No way.
21 years have past, 100's of police involved and not one of them has said anything, that kind of secret doesn't stay buried. | | | |
| Clydach murders on 13:53 - Oct 27 with 1386 views | angryjack |
| Clydach murders on 13:43 - Oct 27 by whiterock |
Agree with this and as been said before, there are always rotten apples in any organisation, but a whole police force, I think not, think about it, you might cover for your mate if he has cocked up in work but 4 brutal murders? No way.
21 years have past, 100's of police involved and not one of them has said anything, that kind of secret doesn't stay buried. |
Why was evidence that could incriminate them be held back.by the police | | | |
| Clydach murders on 14:13 - Oct 27 with 1364 views | trampie |
| Clydach murders on 13:00 - Oct 27 by Highjack |
Talking about motive, it was striking to me that the killer was apparently down on his hands and knees at one point going through all the videotapes as if he were looking for something. This was presumably after the killing because he had blood on his hands. The generally accepted motive was that Morris was angry because she had refused his sexual advances, but if that’s the case why has he spent so much time in the house afterwards looking through the videotapes? There’s clearly something there that he wants. My first thought was maybe a sex tape or something incriminating. And when he couldn’t find it he set the fires to ensure if it were still in the house it would be destroyed. Either way the documentary didn’t explain this very well. |
That was my thought as well after watching the programme, they did not make much play of it but I thought exactly the same as you. |  |
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| Clydach murders on 14:14 - Oct 27 with 1369 views | Highjack |
| Clydach murders on 13:18 - Oct 27 by Andy1300 |
But the expert categorically said the hand print on the carpet could not be Dai’s |
The expert getting paid by the defence said that. The expert getting paid by the prosecution said it was definitely his. Bloody experts ey? | |
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| Clydach murders on 14:31 - Oct 27 with 1350 views | exhmrc1 |
| Clydach murders on 13:43 - Oct 27 by whiterock |
Agree with this and as been said before, there are always rotten apples in any organisation, but a whole police force, I think not, think about it, you might cover for your mate if he has cocked up in work but 4 brutal murders? No way.
21 years have past, 100's of police involved and not one of them has said anything, that kind of secret doesn't stay buried. |
I really dont buy into this belief about sex. Why would anyone kill someones mother if you wanted to have sex with the daughter. Surely no woman would want sex with someone who had already killed their mother. It is obvious all were killed because they knew the murderer who went there to kill Mandy not to have sex with her. | | | |
| Clydach murders on 14:36 - Oct 27 with 1341 views | trampie |
| Clydach murders on 14:31 - Oct 27 by exhmrc1 |
I really dont buy into this belief about sex. Why would anyone kill someones mother if you wanted to have sex with the daughter. Surely no woman would want sex with someone who had already killed their mother. It is obvious all were killed because they knew the murderer who went there to kill Mandy not to have sex with her. |
Was it the prosecution case that he went there to have sex with Mandy ? | |
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| Clydach murders on 14:56 - Oct 27 with 1325 views | Highjack |
| Clydach murders on 14:31 - Oct 27 by exhmrc1 |
I really dont buy into this belief about sex. Why would anyone kill someones mother if you wanted to have sex with the daughter. Surely no woman would want sex with someone who had already killed their mother. It is obvious all were killed because they knew the murderer who went there to kill Mandy not to have sex with her. |
That person was looking for something. Why else would you be on your hands and knees rifling through old videotapes covered in blood after killing four people? The documentary just glossed over this but it seems potentially very important to me. | |
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| Clydach murders on 15:25 - Oct 27 with 1310 views | trampie |
| Clydach murders on 14:56 - Oct 27 by Highjack |
That person was looking for something. Why else would you be on your hands and knees rifling through old videotapes covered in blood after killing four people? The documentary just glossed over this but it seems potentially very important to me. |
I thought the same. [Post edited 27 Oct 2020 16:04]
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| Clydach murders on 16:10 - Oct 27 with 1295 views | angryjack |
Perhaps it was the po!iceman looking for videos of his wife who WS shagg@ing. Mandy..or even the jealous police woman who found out her girlfriend d been playing g about behind her back and was looking for proof | | | |
| Clydach murders on 16:31 - Oct 27 with 1287 views | Yyy |
| Clydach murders on 22:10 - Jul 5 by exhmrc1 |
2 juries with 2 separate judges unanimously believe he did. They were at the trial. The people of Swansea werent |
You seem knowledgeable with regards to the case but.....
You seem to use Mansfield as a reason for undisputed guilt due to Mansfields rep. Mansfield only took part for the opening statement for the second trial after that a junior QC from the office was used.Mansfield had prior commitment with regards to a human rights hearing.
And you say your sister new both mandys from school days.
That would be the Yorkshire born Mandy that only moved down hear after meeting her x husband at the age of 23.
I | | | |
| Clydach murders on 16:37 - Oct 27 with 1279 views | chad |
| Clydach murders on 14:14 - Oct 27 by Highjack |
The expert getting paid by the defence said that. The expert getting paid by the prosecution said it was definitely his. Bloody experts ey? |
I don’t think the expert for the prosecution said it was his, i think they said they could not rule out Morris having made the handprint, which is very different.
The expert in the programme seemed to say it definitely could not be his and was adamant the prosecution expert had failed to take into account (I think it was)the orientation of the handprint.
It may have been helpful for the 2 experts to debate this issue, or even a wider group of experts come to a consensus on this, as surely this evidence is absolutely central to the case.
As as per the potential for DNA on the side of the sock (thought to be used as a glove) that was apparently not tested. It seems they overlooked the possibility the sock could have been used inside out.
Surely if Morris is guilty it would be in the best interests of the family to remove any doubt and do away with any further hurtful speculation.
I didn’t think the woman who created that E-fit that was a dead ringer for a Lewis brother (both actually as twins) was discredited as someone mentioned. I understood that the judge directed for it to be ignored because Alison Lewis was seen as a credible witness and she gave her husband an alibi (in bed next to her). Seems a bit irregular given their close relationship and either could have been involved. |  | | |
| Clydach murders on 16:40 - Oct 27 with 1272 views | KeithHaynes |
| Clydach murders on 16:31 - Oct 27 by Yyy |
You seem knowledgeable with regards to the case but.....
You seem to use Mansfield as a reason for undisputed guilt due to Mansfields rep. Mansfield only took part for the opening statement for the second trial after that a junior QC from the office was used.Mansfield had prior commitment with regards to a human rights hearing.
And you say your sister new both mandys from school days.
That would be the Yorkshire born Mandy that only moved down hear after meeting her x husband at the age of 23.
I |
Welcome to the board, excellent first post. |  |
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| Clydach murders on 16:56 - Oct 27 with 1255 views | chad |
| Clydach murders on 12:27 - Oct 27 by exhmrc1 |
I dont know what you know about the Wassell's. They are a large group of brothers. I think there are 7 of them in total. Often involved with the police.
There was another incident with Morris I believe involved a woman in a car which I think he went down for a few years before. The fact people refused to testify in the Wassell case indicates what people think outside of this case.
People say there is no motive. If Morris believed his girlfriend was having a gay affair with Mandy or she had been trying to get her to leave him. He certainly resented the 2 girls friendship.
It is known Mandy feared and intensely disliked Morris yet you have some on here who suggest she was having an affair with him something the family and her friends say would never have happened in a million years. |
You speculate here as to the motive of Morris. But given it seemed the affair between Alison and Mandy was general knowledge, does that not actually place that motive at the door of Stephen Lewis?
I thought there were 2 witnesses to Stephen Lewis threatening Mandy and her children, including threatening to kill Mandy if she did not leave his wife alone. He stood to lose his wife and children. Plus of course (and more so then), it is not beyond the bounds of possibility that some men (especially the more macho) may see it as an additional assault on their Male pride, to lose their family to a woman.
Although the affair was said to be common knowledge, Stephen Lewis claimed not to know about it. It seems he dismissed the supposed threat as a joke? But the neighbour who witnessed it said Mandy was cowering from him. | | | |
| Clydach murders on 17:08 - Oct 27 with 1247 views | exhmrc1 |
| Clydach murders on 16:56 - Oct 27 by chad |
You speculate here as to the motive of Morris. But given it seemed the affair between Alison and Mandy was general knowledge, does that not actually place that motive at the door of Stephen Lewis?
I thought there were 2 witnesses to Stephen Lewis threatening Mandy and her children, including threatening to kill Mandy if she did not leave his wife alone. He stood to lose his wife and children. Plus of course (and more so then), it is not beyond the bounds of possibility that some men (especially the more macho) may see it as an additional assault on their Male pride, to lose their family to a woman.
Although the affair was said to be common knowledge, Stephen Lewis claimed not to know about it. It seems he dismissed the supposed threat as a joke? But the neighbour who witnessed it said Mandy was cowering from him. |
i havent heard anything to suggest Mandy was afraid of Lewis but she was well known to be petrified of Morris. None of us know whether Lewis knew about the affair. Often the other partner is the last to know possibly because of trust.
The family and indeed Mandy's friends poor scorn on the idea she was having an affair with Morris.
There is also no history of violence from Lewis whereas there was with Morris including the attack on Wassall with an iron bar similar to what apparently happened in the Dawson household. | | | |
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