| That result is two fingers up to some on here 21:42 - Aug 20 with 6721 views | magicdaps10 |
Put your knives away and have that.
You know who you are.
Get in there 💪 |  |
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| That result is two fingers up to some on here on 11:13 - Aug 21 with 813 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| That result is two fingers up to some on here on 11:09 - Aug 21 by Chief |
Well I wouldn't say this was that. Because Martin's basically saying the players went against his wishes, but it produced a better result and overall performance than what we've had in other games.
It could develop into a development throughout experience if Martin doesn't go back to his initial plan and we stick to and build on what we did last night though! |
We can't go back to that Chief, you are right.
Whether it was Martin's orders, the players taking it on themselves or a mixture of both.. what is clear is that this approach is far more sensible than the previous and until we get a flood of technical players in, we must continue with that.
Doesn't take a genius to see that, regardless of how many people aren't admitting the change worked. They know who they are. |  |
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| That result is two fingers up to some on here on 11:26 - Aug 21 with 812 views | ItchySphincter |
Despite two sides of the divide playing the ‘told you so’ card here you can only play what’s in front of you. The players adapted to the opposition as they should do, and they should be credited for it, and Martin, as he gains more experience, will naturally see that flexibility is a strength. Have a game plan, a system and an identity by all means but don’t be ashamed to adapt. Regardless of how pragmatic some might want to claim that performance was it was still light years away from Cooperball, and Bristol City were far from terrible - they’re struggling with some things and misfiring a bit but in a lot of areas they were very decent. |  |
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| That result is two fingers up to some on here on 11:30 - Aug 21 with 759 views | onehunglow |
| That result is two fingers up to some on here on 11:26 - Aug 21 by ItchySphincter |
Despite two sides of the divide playing the ‘told you so’ card here you can only play what’s in front of you. The players adapted to the opposition as they should do, and they should be credited for it, and Martin, as he gains more experience, will naturally see that flexibility is a strength. Have a game plan, a system and an identity by all means but don’t be ashamed to adapt. Regardless of how pragmatic some might want to claim that performance was it was still light years away from Cooperball, and Bristol City were far from terrible - they’re struggling with some things and misfiring a bit but in a lot of areas they were very decent. |
Brad Cooper clearly hoofed the ball clear and saved the situation as did Paterson right at the end when we were under pressure.
That alone tands out for me and gives me hope I did not have prior to the game.
Things in football change.It's why we should not rip the fark out of each other for posting what some see as "negative"
When Keith makes me Head Moderator,I will ban permanently anyone using the term "negative" or positive come to that. That and expulsion from the Lodge  |  |
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| That result is two fingers up to some on here on 11:36 - Aug 21 with 779 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| That result is two fingers up to some on here on 11:30 - Aug 21 by onehunglow |
Brad Cooper clearly hoofed the ball clear and saved the situation as did Paterson right at the end when we were under pressure.
That alone tands out for me and gives me hope I did not have prior to the game.
Things in football change.It's why we should not rip the fark out of each other for posting what some see as "negative"
When Keith makes me Head Moderator,I will ban permanently anyone using the term "negative" or positive come to that. That and expulsion from the Lodge |
Amazing isn't it.
It's certainly the first I have ever heard someone attempting to say that backing the manager to make some much needed changes is 'negative' anyway... especially when those exact changes then give us our first league win of the season.  | |
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| That result is two fingers up to some on here on 11:53 - Aug 21 with 767 views | jasper_T |
Completely understand Martin's complaints about the approach for much of the second half. We could have controlled the game better, and instead let it become a scrap reminiscent of most of last season's wins. The goal was against the run of play in the first half and they had some good openings they couldn't put away. | | | |
| That result is two fingers up to some on here on 13:34 - Aug 21 with 723 views | Treforys_Jack |
| That result is two fingers up to some on here on 11:09 - Aug 21 by Dr_Parnassus |
These aren't tiny points. We have troll trying to spread cowardly lies about individuals.
I won't stand for that, if that annoys you then tough titties I guess my friend? |
Ah I see what's happened here, you're confusing me with someone who cares. Just wanted to point out to you that you're spending far too much time on here and putting in way too much effort to prove to everyone , you're right. If someone said the grass was green, you'd come up with 50 posts to prove it wasn't. You can reply and have the last word as I know you will, I'm off out  |  | | |
| That result is two fingers up to some on here on 13:36 - Aug 21 with 683 views | onehunglow |
| That result is two fingers up to some on here on 13:34 - Aug 21 by Treforys_Jack |
Ah I see what's happened here, you're confusing me with someone who cares. Just wanted to point out to you that you're spending far too much time on here and putting in way too much effort to prove to everyone , you're right. If someone said the grass was green, you'd come up with 50 posts to prove it wasn't. You can reply and have the last word as I know you will, I'm off out |
No,hang around ,you might learn summat Champ. | |
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| That result is two fingers up to some on here on 13:46 - Aug 21 with 712 views | ploppy |
| That result is two fingers up to some on here on 11:53 - Aug 21 by jasper_T |
Completely understand Martin's complaints about the approach for much of the second half. We could have controlled the game better, and instead let it become a scrap reminiscent of most of last season's wins. The goal was against the run of play in the first half and they had some good openings they couldn't put away. |
Completely agree. A good performance overall and a great win but we need better control. Much as some people get all twitchy, that starts with looking after the ball better. | | | |
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| That result is two fingers up to some on here on 13:49 - Aug 21 with 698 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| That result is two fingers up to some on here on 13:34 - Aug 21 by Treforys_Jack |
Ah I see what's happened here, you're confusing me with someone who cares. Just wanted to point out to you that you're spending far too much time on here and putting in way too much effort to prove to everyone , you're right. If someone said the grass was green, you'd come up with 50 posts to prove it wasn't. You can reply and have the last word as I know you will, I'm off out |
You certainly do care, hence your post(s).
I am not spending too much time on here at all, nobody can make that assessment other than me and I am saying you are incorrect.
If someone said the grass was green, I would agree (if it was). If they told me it was blue, then I would try and explain to them very patiently why they are mistaken.
Easy. | |
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| That result is two fingers up to some on here on 16:18 - Aug 21 with 639 views | johnlangy |
Correct. | | | |
| That result is two fingers up to some on here on 18:20 - Aug 21 with 563 views | PatchesOHoulihan |
After listening to Martin’s interview it seemed to me that we weren’t deliberately more pragmatic however as we had a 1-0 lead which is so thing we haven’t had in the league this year no player wanted to be responsible for an error which would cost us the lead.
It was very good game management but I don’t think I we’ll se similar over the next few weeks as he sounded like he wants us to control games more |  |
| This is Patches O'Houlihan saying "Take care of your balls, and they'll take care of you." |
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| That result is two fingers up to some on here on 18:31 - Aug 21 with 551 views | ReslovenSwan1 |
From what I have read Dr P puts forward am model and sticks to the model. It is a common human trait. Dr P's model is that ordinary footballers cannot play possession football in the way Martin wants them to play and Martin should ditch his principle until he can bring in alternative "more technical" players.
Martin also has a model that players can adapt. Lets face it he got the League 1 battlers at MK Dons to do it. They had some background i it under the leadership of Paul Tisdale known to have been offered at least interviews under he Jenkinista regime. In philosophical terms it is a clash of models.
Dr P argues that the 1-0 win at Bristol was the result of player pragmatism defying the instructions of the Manager. This represents the players accepting their own limitations.
I would argue that Brendan Rodgers's team of 2009 in the Championship had a back 6 of 2 highly technical" players in Britton and Allen. Taylor Monk Williams and Tate would not be called highly technical tika taka specialists. Rangel came fro the Spanish 3rd division. They simply were well drilled and knew what to do in every situation. Honed by drills by Brendan' s coaching team. De Vries was also honed in his methods but Brendan was perfectly happy to let him go and brought in another Dutchman to replace him.
They is an argument that modern day pressing is more committed these days. Passing the ball in defence is an attempt to lure opposing forwards away from defensive duties and create space. The high press is also very tiring for 90 minutes.
Benda is a superb prospect and appears to have all the tools. He needs to cut out the one rash moment he makes every game so far. He passing must be super accurate and without urgency.
Last night possession stats were roughly 60:40 in the Swansea favour. A reverse could be expected under Cooperball. That is a 40% swing. |  |
| Wise sage since Toshack era |
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| That result is two fingers up to some on here on 18:41 - Aug 21 with 538 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| That result is two fingers up to some on here on 18:31 - Aug 21 by ReslovenSwan1 |
From what I have read Dr P puts forward am model and sticks to the model. It is a common human trait. Dr P's model is that ordinary footballers cannot play possession football in the way Martin wants them to play and Martin should ditch his principle until he can bring in alternative "more technical" players.
Martin also has a model that players can adapt. Lets face it he got the League 1 battlers at MK Dons to do it. They had some background i it under the leadership of Paul Tisdale known to have been offered at least interviews under he Jenkinista regime. In philosophical terms it is a clash of models.
Dr P argues that the 1-0 win at Bristol was the result of player pragmatism defying the instructions of the Manager. This represents the players accepting their own limitations.
I would argue that Brendan Rodgers's team of 2009 in the Championship had a back 6 of 2 highly technical" players in Britton and Allen. Taylor Monk Williams and Tate would not be called highly technical tika taka specialists. Rangel came fro the Spanish 3rd division. They simply were well drilled and knew what to do in every situation. Honed by drills by Brendan' s coaching team. De Vries was also honed in his methods but Brendan was perfectly happy to let him go and brought in another Dutchman to replace him.
They is an argument that modern day pressing is more committed these days. Passing the ball in defence is an attempt to lure opposing forwards away from defensive duties and create space. The high press is also very tiring for 90 minutes.
Benda is a superb prospect and appears to have all the tools. He needs to cut out the one rash moment he makes every game so far. He passing must be super accurate and without urgency.
Last night possession stats were roughly 60:40 in the Swansea favour. A reverse could be expected under Cooperball. That is a 40% swing. |
I don’t have any “model”, I just state common sense. Players have specific traits and attributes, which is why transfers exist, clubs chop and change players depending on what they need. If everyone can just be trained to be anything they want then there wouldn’t be any need.
How do you know Martin has a principle that players should adapt? He changed the way we played quite intentionally due to the fact we haven’t been able to adapt.
The possession stats yesterday was 55% to Swansea, our lowest of the season. What’s Cooperball got to do with anything? Are you making the mistake that pragmatic football means “Cooperball”, whatever that means. It doesn’t, as yesterday showed. Did you watch the game out of interest?
Anyone with half a brain cell to rub together could see there was a massive style change, we played double the long balls of the previous game, despite having a third less passes. Our long ball % was in fact higher in the last game than during Coopers whole reign, considering you are comparing for some reason.
Where have I argued the players defied the managers instructions? You say “from what I’ve read”, but it doesn’t look like you have read much at all. You keep getting it wrong. However when talking about someone’s view and what they have said, it’s essential you are accurate.
You have been brought up on that before by several other posters, haven’t you?
Unfortunately it looks like you are making a point on a subject you haven’t understood. Although it’s not altogether clear what that point is, regardless. [Post edited 21 Aug 2021 18:49]
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| That result is two fingers up to some on here on 18:50 - Aug 21 with 530 views | jasper_T |
I think when Martin says our players will get better he believes our players can get better.
He was very clear in his post-match that the way the team played in the second half especially is not the way he asked them to play. | | | |
| That result is two fingers up to some on here on 18:57 - Aug 21 with 517 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| That result is two fingers up to some on here on 18:50 - Aug 21 by jasper_T |
I think when Martin says our players will get better he believes our players can get better.
He was very clear in his post-match that the way the team played in the second half especially is not the way he asked them to play. |
Of course. Why wouldn’t they get better?
It’s very rare players get worse over time, unless age becomes a factor. Doesn’t mean get better in all areas though, Britton got better when he was with us… didn’t get better in the air with his shooting or get any quicker though, to give one such example. Players will largely get better in the traits that are natural to them.
Whether he asked them to play that way or if the players took it upon themselves, I’m sure in the cold light of day all will realise we were far better yesterday than anything seen in the league previously this season. I would be extremely disappointed if we revert to type in the next game and fail to capitalise on the pragmatism shown in the last game and the rewards we saw as a result. | |
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| That result is two fingers up to some on here on 19:06 - Aug 21 with 506 views | AndyCole |
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Comically childish, divisive thread. What type of person (and subsequent divisive persons) choose to create and post on such a thread immediately after a cleverly pragmatic, hard worked win ?
Martin has shown he can bounce back after poor, schoolboy mistakes and play a progressive blend of practical, stoic defence along with proper players in proper positions further forward. Ain't rocket science is it.
And it ain't a million miles from where his predecessor ended up resorting. With the crucial difference of a proper CF and Patterson.
Not having players that aren't good enough - Cabango and Dhanda was step 1, as pointed out by the more astute. The back 3 was far more suited to Martinball, and did so in a sensible way.
Let's hope Martin now gets the final pieces of his jigsaw to kick on. Something his predecessor was denied.
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| Pro free speech and alternative opinions -
Anti gang-bullying and poor modding thereof -
Will always make a stand against those who consistently choose to turn a blind eye |
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| That result is two fingers up to some on here on 19:12 - Aug 21 with 499 views | ReslovenSwan1 |
| That result is two fingers up to some on here on 18:41 - Aug 21 by Dr_Parnassus |
I don’t have any “model”, I just state common sense. Players have specific traits and attributes, which is why transfers exist, clubs chop and change players depending on what they need. If everyone can just be trained to be anything they want then there wouldn’t be any need.
How do you know Martin has a principle that players should adapt? He changed the way we played quite intentionally due to the fact we haven’t been able to adapt.
The possession stats yesterday was 55% to Swansea, our lowest of the season. What’s Cooperball got to do with anything? Are you making the mistake that pragmatic football means “Cooperball”, whatever that means. It doesn’t, as yesterday showed. Did you watch the game out of interest?
Anyone with half a brain cell to rub together could see there was a massive style change, we played double the long balls of the previous game, despite having a third less passes. Our long ball % was in fact higher in the last game than during Coopers whole reign, considering you are comparing for some reason.
Where have I argued the players defied the managers instructions? You say “from what I’ve read”, but it doesn’t look like you have read much at all. You keep getting it wrong. However when talking about someone’s view and what they have said, it’s essential you are accurate.
You have been brought up on that before by several other posters, haven’t you?
Unfortunately it looks like you are making a point on a subject you haven’t understood. Although it’s not altogether clear what that point is, regardless. [Post edited 21 Aug 2021 18:49]
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You were the poster that talked about Coopers 3rd season at Swansea. [Post edited 21 Aug 2021 19:13]
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| Wise sage since Toshack era |
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| That result is two fingers up to some on here on 19:15 - Aug 21 with 489 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| That result is two fingers up to some on here on 19:12 - Aug 21 by ReslovenSwan1 |
You were the poster that talked about Coopers 3rd season at Swansea. [Post edited 21 Aug 2021 19:13]
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I talked about our third season here, of which Cooper was manager of. I have spoken about 6th and 4th place sequence enough...
I’m sure most sensible people understood.
Try harder Stooge  [Post edited 21 Aug 2021 19:17]
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| That result is two fingers up to some on here on 19:16 - Aug 21 with 488 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| That result is two fingers up to some on here on 19:06 - Aug 21 by AndyCole |
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Comically childish, divisive thread. What type of person (and subsequent divisive persons) choose to create and post on such a thread immediately after a cleverly pragmatic, hard worked win ?
Martin has shown he can bounce back after poor, schoolboy mistakes and play a progressive blend of practical, stoic defence along with proper players in proper positions further forward. Ain't rocket science is it.
And it ain't a million miles from where his predecessor ended up resorting. With the crucial difference of a proper CF and Patterson.
Not having players that aren't good enough - Cabango and Dhanda was step 1, as pointed out by the more astute. The back 3 was far more suited to Martinball, and did so in a sensible way.
Let's hope Martin now gets the final pieces of his jigsaw to kick on. Something his predecessor was denied.
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Ones that are annoyed that we were right and it appears Martin agreed, thats who. 
Diddums | |
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| That result is two fingers up to some on here on 19:28 - Aug 21 with 477 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| That result is two fingers up to some on here on 18:20 - Aug 21 by PatchesOHoulihan |
After listening to Martin’s interview it seemed to me that we weren’t deliberately more pragmatic however as we had a 1-0 lead which is so thing we haven’t had in the league this year no player wanted to be responsible for an error which would cost us the lead.
It was very good game management but I don’t think I we’ll se similar over the next few weeks as he sounded like he wants us to control games more |
Whether he did it by accident or by design, it was the right way to play and it showed.
Let’s hope lessons are learned now that you don’t have to make 700 passes a game and have 75% to be entertaining.
A win with 55% possession and a sensible approach is far more entertaining than getting beaten convincingly with 70% possession with a reckless and senseless approach.
I’d like to think it was by design and give the manager credit. | |
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| That result is two fingers up to some on here on 19:35 - Aug 21 with 469 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| That result is two fingers up to some on here on 19:23 - Aug 21 by ReslovenSwan1 |
You were the poster that talked about Coopers 3rd season at Swansea. You did not correct it. "Never admit to mistakes" is an honourable attitude. Shame you raise the arguments of bullies to denigrate my post. I put it up for debate not point scoring. 56% possession at Bristol is the exact reverse of the same match last season. 2 more point as well.
Were Monk, Tate, Taylor Ash Williams super technical footballers? Not in my book. An argument to consider. No argument? Go after the poster. All conventional forum behaviour. Name calling and the rest. 'Stooge' that is a new one for the collection. |
By correct it, do you mean edit it? I most certainly clarified what I clearly meant, it didn’t take a rocket scientist.
What has the reverse last year got to do with anything though? What point are you trying to make?
Yes, Ashley Williams was an excellent technical player and was the key to our way of playing as he could relieve pressure from the press by pinging a 40 yard pass to feet to Dyer or Sinclair. He declined with age towards the end, but so will most.
In the Rodgers era due to having tiki taka specialists in every department from defence to defensive midfield to central midfield to our width it meant we could carry such players as Tate because he had Williams to his right and Britton ahead of him, who would often bail him out.
We don’t have any tiki taka specialists as it is, which is why when we went to a more pragmatic approach yesterday we reaped the rewards instead of getting absolutely dominated off the stat sheet.
What do you mean go after the poster? You just created a post in order to lie about me. If you don’t want any remarks about your conduct and you want people to reply to your content, then ensure you aren’t lying about the person you wish to get a response from. Top tip. | |
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| That result is two fingers up to some on here on 19:43 - Aug 21 with 460 views | KeithHaynes |
| That result is two fingers up to some on here on 19:35 - Aug 21 by Dr_Parnassus |
By correct it, do you mean edit it? I most certainly clarified what I clearly meant, it didn’t take a rocket scientist.
What has the reverse last year got to do with anything though? What point are you trying to make?
Yes, Ashley Williams was an excellent technical player and was the key to our way of playing as he could relieve pressure from the press by pinging a 40 yard pass to feet to Dyer or Sinclair. He declined with age towards the end, but so will most.
In the Rodgers era due to having tiki taka specialists in every department from defence to defensive midfield to central midfield to our width it meant we could carry such players as Tate because he had Williams to his right and Britton ahead of him, who would often bail him out.
We don’t have any tiki taka specialists as it is, which is why when we went to a more pragmatic approach yesterday we reaped the rewards instead of getting absolutely dominated off the stat sheet.
What do you mean go after the poster? You just created a post in order to lie about me. If you don’t want any remarks about your conduct and you want people to reply to your content, then ensure you aren’t lying about the person you wish to get a response from. Top tip. |
Ashley Williams took five years to become a leader on the pitch, it was only after he saw the premier league captains getting in the refs faces that he did the same. His last two seasons with us were telling in that regard. |  |
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| That result is two fingers up to some on here on 19:44 - Aug 21 with 455 views | AndyCole |
| That result is two fingers up to some on here on 19:28 - Aug 21 by Dr_Parnassus |
Whether he did it by accident or by design, it was the right way to play and it showed.
Let’s hope lessons are learned now that you don’t have to make 700 passes a game and have 75% to be entertaining.
A win with 55% possession and a sensible approach is far more entertaining than getting beaten convincingly with 70% possession with a reckless and senseless approach.
I’d like to think it was by design and give the manager credit. |
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Indeed.
Entertainment is about winning, boxing clever and outwitting (for the winners out there).
The feeble sheeple who ' I just want to be entertained (by ballocks keep-ball) brigade' are clearly not the winners (I'm being polite). They know who they are.
By all accounts our players lead the way to victory, by playing proper winning football. Let's hope our young ambitious manager learns from the players that were here under Cooper who are accustomed to winning.
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| Pro free speech and alternative opinions -
Anti gang-bullying and poor modding thereof -
Will always make a stand against those who consistently choose to turn a blind eye |
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| That result is two fingers up to some on here on 19:52 - Aug 21 with 445 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| That result is two fingers up to some on here on 19:44 - Aug 21 by AndyCole |
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Indeed.
Entertainment is about winning, boxing clever and outwitting (for the winners out there).
The feeble sheeple who ' I just want to be entertained (by ballocks keep-ball) brigade' are clearly not the winners (I'm being polite). They know who they are.
By all accounts our players lead the way to victory, by playing proper winning football. Let's hope our young ambitious manager learns from the players that were here under Cooper who are accustomed to winning.
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From what I can piece together from little bits and pieces, because these people try to avoid specifics at all costs.
They seem to think that recognising the massive style change yesterday will represent some sort of defeat for the beautiful game. If they pretend it was the same and nothing changed then they can somehow convince them self that the initial plan eventually worked?
There also seems to be a bizarre notion that any form of pragmatic play means emulating Steve Coopers system. Which I assume it why Resolven thinks it relevant to bring up the possession stats against Bristol City last year? But again, these people refuse to be specific so I can only guess.
There are a thousand different ways to play pragmatically and there are a thousand ways to play entertaining football. Nobody was advocating a return to Coopers style, we don’t have Ayew, Woodman or Guehi, it would not be advised.
What was advised is that we play more pragmatically in our defensive third and do not be afraid of long balls when under pressure. Hence why we saw double long balls yesterday than the previous game despite making a third less passes.
It worked. As much as it’s clearly not sitting right with a fair few. | |
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