| Anti-Semitism in Football 22:18 - Jul 27 with 5780 views | Kerouac |
Let's kick it out shall we...
I for one want to know what our club intends to do about it.
I am proposing that before every game, after the obligatory kneeling, our players turn towards the fans and beat their chests with their right fist over their heart for 10 seconds.
Do my fellow Jacks agree?
If not, why not?
This post has been edited by an administrator |  |
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| Anti-Semitism in Football on 22:21 - Jul 27 with 2897 views | KeithHaynes |
Probably needs more explanation. |  |
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| Anti-Semitism in Football on 22:30 - Jul 27 with 2876 views | Kerouac |
| Anti-Semitism in Football on 22:21 - Jul 27 by KeithHaynes |
Probably needs more explanation. |
Anti-Semitism is on the rise in the UK, Europe and the U.S.
Especially over the last few years;
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-
As Britain is institutionally racist and a major political party has been dogged with anti-semitism scandal, it is fair to ask why exactly are there so few Jewish footballers?.
It is also a fair question to ask why our club hasn't done anything to raise the profile of the issue so we can address it and change hearts and minds on the terraces.
I chose this gesture as it seemed appropriate given the circumstances;
Breast Beating
"At any time during a confessional, when the words "we have sinned" or words to that effect are stated, it is the custom to beat the left breast over the heart with the right fist. Self-flagellation is common in many religions. The Jewish practice of breast beating however, is not flagellation and is not intended to be painful. It is a symbol to remind the person of the words being spoken and to encourage penitence." | |
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| Anti-Semitism in Football on 23:27 - Jul 27 with 2824 views | Catullus |
| Anti-Semitism in Football on 22:30 - Jul 27 by Kerouac |
Anti-Semitism is on the rise in the UK, Europe and the U.S.
Especially over the last few years;
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-
As Britain is institutionally racist and a major political party has been dogged with anti-semitism scandal, it is fair to ask why exactly are there so few Jewish footballers?.
It is also a fair question to ask why our club hasn't done anything to raise the profile of the issue so we can address it and change hearts and minds on the terraces.
I chose this gesture as it seemed appropriate given the circumstances;
Breast Beating
"At any time during a confessional, when the words "we have sinned" or words to that effect are stated, it is the custom to beat the left breast over the heart with the right fist. Self-flagellation is common in many religions. The Jewish practice of breast beating however, is not flagellation and is not intended to be painful. It is a symbol to remind the person of the words being spoken and to encourage penitence." |
Maybe not that many jews are interested in playing football? To be honest racism has never stopped black players, even when football racism was REALLY bad, black players still came through. So maybe it's not about racism.
Anti Semitism has always been there, the Jews have always faced hostility, they were being attacked, victimised in Europe centuries before Hitler. Even during the 30's when it was starting to show up how Germany was behaving to the Jews, Britain often turned its back.
https://reviews.history.ac.uk/
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/
is Anti Semitism increasing, maybe it is. People are no longer allowed to be publicly racist to Black people or LGBT+ so maybe the bigots turned to other targets. |  |
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| Anti-Semitism in Football on 23:29 - Jul 27 with 2813 views | KeithHaynes |
Switched to non football thread.
Not taking away from the overall topic, but it will expand away from football.
This post has been edited by an administrator | |
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| Anti-Semitism in Football on 23:30 - Jul 27 with 2796 views | ItchySphincter |
| Anti-Semitism in Football on 22:30 - Jul 27 by Kerouac |
Anti-Semitism is on the rise in the UK, Europe and the U.S.
Especially over the last few years;
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-
As Britain is institutionally racist and a major political party has been dogged with anti-semitism scandal, it is fair to ask why exactly are there so few Jewish footballers?.
It is also a fair question to ask why our club hasn't done anything to raise the profile of the issue so we can address it and change hearts and minds on the terraces.
I chose this gesture as it seemed appropriate given the circumstances;
Breast Beating
"At any time during a confessional, when the words "we have sinned" or words to that effect are stated, it is the custom to beat the left breast over the heart with the right fist. Self-flagellation is common in many religions. The Jewish practice of breast beating however, is not flagellation and is not intended to be painful. It is a symbol to remind the person of the words being spoken and to encourage penitence." |
How do feel about players taking the knee? |  |
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| Anti-Semitism in Football on 00:29 - Jul 28 with 2763 views | Kerouac |
| Anti-Semitism in Football on 23:30 - Jul 27 by ItchySphincter |
How do feel about players taking the knee? |
I, nor you, could possibly know.
Do you support our club making a stand against anti-semitism or don't you? | |
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| Anti-Semitism in Football on 00:30 - Jul 28 with 2762 views | Kerouac |
| Anti-Semitism in Football on 23:29 - Jul 27 by KeithHaynes |
Switched to non football thread.
Not taking away from the overall topic, but it will expand away from football.
This post has been edited by an administrator |
The thing is, it should be a non-football topic...but this stuff has been made into a football topic, what with our players having to make political gestures before each and every game of football for 2 years. | |
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| Anti-Semitism in Football on 00:34 - Jul 28 with 2756 views | Catullus |
| Anti-Semitism in Football on 00:30 - Jul 28 by Kerouac |
The thing is, it should be a non-football topic...but this stuff has been made into a football topic, what with our players having to make political gestures before each and every game of football for 2 years. |
I didnt think they HAD to, I thought they had been allowed to decide for themselves and choose to still take the knee.
It should always have been a freedom of choice but unfortunately the governing body fell for the propaganda and supported a less than wholesome organisation with dubius aims, to put it politely. | |
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| Anti-Semitism in Football on 00:46 - Jul 28 with 2751 views | Kerouac |
| Anti-Semitism in Football on 23:27 - Jul 27 by Catullus |
Maybe not that many jews are interested in playing football? To be honest racism has never stopped black players, even when football racism was REALLY bad, black players still came through. So maybe it's not about racism.
Anti Semitism has always been there, the Jews have always faced hostility, they were being attacked, victimised in Europe centuries before Hitler. Even during the 30's when it was starting to show up how Germany was behaving to the Jews, Britain often turned its back.
https://reviews.history.ac.uk/
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/
is Anti Semitism increasing, maybe it is. People are no longer allowed to be publicly racist to Black people or LGBT+ so maybe the bigots turned to other targets. |
"Maybe not that many jews are interested in playing football?"
How do you know that and why would you assume that?
"To be honest racism has never stopped black players, even when football racism was REALLY bad, black players still came through. So maybe it's not about racism."
So does it follow that the players don't kneel because racism has damaged their football careers but rather that they are seeking to make a point about racism in society in general?
If so why can't they do the same for Anti-Semitism?
"Anti Semitism has always been there, the Jews have always faced hostility, they were being attacked, victimised in Europe centuries before Hitler. Even during the 30's when it was starting to show up how Germany was behaving to the Jews, Britain often turned its back."
What point are you trying to make here? That Anti-Semitism is a problem that has been with us for centuries and needs addressing?
Or is your point that because it has been a problem for centuries it is not a problem that needs to be addressed?
"is Anti Semitism increasing, maybe it is. People are no longer allowed to be publicly racist to Black people or LGBT+ so maybe the bigots turned to other targets."
Maybe? You don't believe the stats?
Is that how it works...does that mean (in the context of your previous reference to the history of Anti-Semitism in Britain and Europe) that racism against black people came first, and racism(?)...I think you meant 'the persecution of'...against LGBTQ+ people came first...and then people across Europe moved on to Anti-Semitism?
Or do you mean that people who were racist in the UK in the 1970s...most of whom will be in their 70s now...have moved on to Anti-Semitism? | |
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| Anti-Semitism in Football on 00:50 - Jul 28 with 2749 views | Kerouac |
| Anti-Semitism in Football on 00:34 - Jul 28 by Catullus |
I didnt think they HAD to, I thought they had been allowed to decide for themselves and choose to still take the knee.
It should always have been a freedom of choice but unfortunately the governing body fell for the propaganda and supported a less than wholesome organisation with dubius aims, to put it politely. |
Do you honestly think there is unanimity of political opinion in our football team?
Or is it more likely that those in the team who disagree feel pressured into complying because to stand up whilst their team mates kneel is to invite hate and accusations of "racism"?
"unfortunately the governing body fell for the propaganda and supported a less than wholesome organisation with dubious aims, to put it politely."
So we, as a club have made a mistake and supported a "less than wholesome organisation with dubious aims" for TWO YEARS!?!?
Is anyone at the club going to make a public apology?
Are the players going to make a contrite statement?
Surely we are not going to keep kneeling for a "less than wholesome organisation with dubious aims" are we? Are we?!?
The fans would never allow it, surely. We are good people aren't we?
Anyway back to the point. Do you support our club, our players, doing something to wipe the stain of Anti-Semitism from our society?
If not, why not? [Post edited 28 Jul 2022 0:58]
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| Anti-Semitism in Football on 00:53 - Jul 28 with 2739 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| Anti-Semitism in Football on 00:34 - Jul 28 by Catullus |
I didnt think they HAD to, I thought they had been allowed to decide for themselves and choose to still take the knee.
It should always have been a freedom of choice but unfortunately the governing body fell for the propaganda and supported a less than wholesome organisation with dubius aims, to put it politely. |
So did you if I remember rightly. |  |
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| Anti-Semitism in Football on 07:16 - Jul 28 with 2672 views | jojaca |
What a lot of rubbish, in all the years watching the Swans from the stands I can't remember any anti semitism. I bet high percentage of the population doesn't even know what it means.
You want to know what our club intends to do about it. Let's get a list of other things for our club to sort out like child trafficking, third world starvation, current energy crisis, cost of living etc . My point it is when will it end, our players will be doing a five minute cheerleading dance before kick off soon and going around with charity buckets at half time with save the planet t-shirts on. We are a football club and let's keep it at that, I am all for supporting local charities in our community, but keep issues local.
I am proposing we kick all this political stuff out of sport, two years kneeling now. I think the ones with half a brain cell get the message by now. The UK is the one of the best countries for accepting multiculturalism and very tolerable to current woke agendas etc. You will always have idiots in every form of life, stop spoiling for it for the 99.9%, your never going to have your utopia. |  |
| Even when you know, you never know? |
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| Anti-Semitism in Football on 07:26 - Jul 28 with 2654 views | Dr_Parnassus |
I think that’s his point in fairness…
although thinking about it, there is a distinct shortage of Jewish managers.
Avram Grant is the only one that comes to mind.
Maybe everyone should beat their chests for 10 seconds like suggested. Maybe next year we can have a few more Jewish managers then.
Transgender managers are a distinct shortage too. Once the Jewish managerial crisis is sorted we can add another gesture to the pre match routine. Everyone has to go into the centre circle - undo their laces and then tie them up again.
Anyone who doesn’t do it or disagrees with the actions is a bigot of course.
We will solve these problems one thing at a time and tackle them head on. | |
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| Anti-Semitism in Football on 07:44 - Jul 28 with 2648 views | JACKMANANDBOY |
Antisemitism is sadly increasing. However the moralising in football looks increasingly like hypocrisy, witness the moralising Southgate who says that there in no point in refusing to play in Qatar because everyone else will go. No doubt his advice to Rosa Parks would have been not to sit in the white section of a bus because nobody else will. |  |
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| Anti-Semitism in Football on 08:01 - Jul 28 with 2642 views | jackrmee |
Isn’t antisemitism a type of racism?
Doesn’t taking the knee cover Jews too? |  |
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| Anti-Semitism in Football on 08:24 - Jul 28 with 2633 views | Gwyn737 |
| Anti-Semitism in Football on 07:44 - Jul 28 by JACKMANANDBOY |
Antisemitism is sadly increasing. However the moralising in football looks increasingly like hypocrisy, witness the moralising Southgate who says that there in no point in refusing to play in Qatar because everyone else will go. No doubt his advice to Rosa Parks would have been not to sit in the white section of a bus because nobody else will. |
I agree that the moralising is very muddy in sport.
Look at what’s happening with LIV golf where players are being called out by the traditional tours while the very same organisations have taken billions from Saudis in sponsorship.
I think the human right abuses in Quatar are abhorrent but to be honest, I’ll still be watching the World Cup. | | | |
| Anti-Semitism in Football on 08:28 - Jul 28 with 2632 views | Gwyn737 |
| Anti-Semitism in Football on 08:01 - Jul 28 by jackrmee |
Isn’t antisemitism a type of racism?
Doesn’t taking the knee cover Jews too? |
Interesting point, that. | | | |
| Anti-Semitism in Football on 08:33 - Jul 28 with 2626 views | Sirjohnalot |
| Anti-Semitism in Football on 08:28 - Jul 28 by Gwyn737 |
Interesting point, that. |
Brilliant thread and fantastic, well thought out replies from everyone. |  | | |
| Anti-Semitism in Football on 08:38 - Jul 28 with 2614 views | union_jack |
Many games played on the Sabbath, the Jewish day of rest.
Don’t know what excuses our other players have for not turning up on a Saturday thoughðŸ˜? |  |
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| Anti-Semitism in Football on 08:49 - Jul 28 with 2604 views | Kerouac |
| Anti-Semitism in Football on 08:01 - Jul 28 by jackrmee |
Isn’t antisemitism a type of racism?
Doesn’t taking the knee cover Jews too? |
It is a type of racism yes but the kneeling gesture was started by Colin Kaepernick (who is half-Jewish, ironically) as a protest against America's institutional racism against Black people and was quickly adopted by the BLM movement.
It was de rigueur during the summer of 2020 when Leftist movements ripped up American cities, burning, looting, rioting, murdering in the run up to the 2020 election.
Remember that?
...and was then adopted by those in this country that wished to copy (remember the ripping down of statues and the riot in Bristol where our poor old police officers were attacked?) and eventually by football.
The kneeling gesture was very much about BLM and skin colour. Anti-Semitism was never mentioned.
In fact, in New York, Jewish people were violently attacked by BLM for their political beliefs.
BLM did not give any of the money they fraudulently obtained to any anti-semitic charities either (they did give a little to charities set up for Black people in America, but only after they had bought themselves a great big mansion in Malibu each first). | |
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| Anti-Semitism in Football on 09:01 - Jul 28 with 2588 views | Kerouac |
| Anti-Semitism in Football on 08:38 - Jul 28 by union_jack |
Many games played on the Sabbath, the Jewish day of rest.
Don’t know what excuses our other players have for not turning up on a Saturday thoughðŸ˜? |
Perhaps we should move fixtures to Sundays so as not to exclude our Jewish community...after all, nobody goes to church on a Sunday anymore and Christianity is evil, everybody knows that. | |
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| Anti-Semitism in Football on 13:00 - Jul 28 with 2544 views | jackrmee |
| Anti-Semitism in Football on 08:49 - Jul 28 by Kerouac |
It is a type of racism yes but the kneeling gesture was started by Colin Kaepernick (who is half-Jewish, ironically) as a protest against America's institutional racism against Black people and was quickly adopted by the BLM movement.
It was de rigueur during the summer of 2020 when Leftist movements ripped up American cities, burning, looting, rioting, murdering in the run up to the 2020 election.
Remember that?
...and was then adopted by those in this country that wished to copy (remember the ripping down of statues and the riot in Bristol where our poor old police officers were attacked?) and eventually by football.
The kneeling gesture was very much about BLM and skin colour. Anti-Semitism was never mentioned.
In fact, in New York, Jewish people were violently attacked by BLM for their political beliefs.
BLM did not give any of the money they fraudulently obtained to any anti-semitic charities either (they did give a little to charities set up for Black people in America, but only after they had bought themselves a great big mansion in Malibu each first). |
Aye it was started for that reason, but the league and UK have made it pretty clear that the players are "standing up to racism" now and not supporting BLM. It's stated by commentators during every kneeling.
I don't think any clubs have anything related to BLM linked to the knee now. | |
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