| Extended families and the UK's open border 09:27 - Jul 16 with 18711 views | AnotherJohn |
We saw the story last week about the migrant care worker who managed to get visas for 15 dependents. The latest tale concerns the Palestinian refugee whom a UK court ruled should be allowed to be reunited with 18 extended family members because of the mental pain of being parted from them. This case was brought under the EHCR 'right to a family life' provision. The pressure cooker is going to go bang soon if this continues.
https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news |  | | |  |
| Extended families and the UK's open border on 09:34 - Jul 16 with 8749 views | JACKMANANDBOY |
It's not necessarily the EHCR that's the problem, it's how it is interpreted by our judges. Some judges seem to be behaving like activists.
Presumably the 18 will have the same rights.
18x18x18 = 5832. [Post edited 16 Jul 12:49]
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| Extended families and the UK's open border on 01:58 - Jul 17 with 8632 views | AnotherJohn |
| Extended families and the UK's open border on 09:34 - Jul 16 by JACKMANANDBOY |
It's not necessarily the EHCR that's the problem, it's how it is interpreted by our judges. Some judges seem to be behaving like activists.
Presumably the 18 will have the same rights.
18x18x18 = 5832. [Post edited 16 Jul 12:49]
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That is only partially true as far as domestic UK judges are concerned. The bigger problem is that the Convention itself has evolved and been reinterpreted over time under the so-called 'living instrument' doctrine, driven by an activist European Court of Human Rights (ECoHR). Former Supreme Court judge Lord Sumption explains in this article.
https://spectator.com/article/
https://spectator.com/podcast/ [Post edited 17 Jul 2:00]
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| Extended families and the UK's open border on 15:41 - Jul 17 with 8504 views | Wingstandwood |
Oh to sum up i.e. in a day and age of net-zero deindustrialisation, that's also costing the U.K billions along with AI technology destroying jobs, with high rate tax payers leaving the country by many thousands and with record benefit costs?.... The U.K is adopting a 'safe and legal route' policy for immigration, whereupon once the 'pathfinders' have arrived entire families will be allowed to follow.
Where is the money going to come to pay for all this?
My guess its from higher taxes, that'll?.... Make even more wealthy taxpayers leave the country, that'll? Create catastrophic borrowing costs and end up forcing lower rate tax payers to plug the deficit . Aye, tax the rich and more will leave, that's how the real world works!!!!
The magic-money-tree that lefty-loon nutjobs see as the (Hey Presto Abracadabra) silver bullet to all problems does not exist! |  |
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| Extended families and the UK's open border on 17:10 - Jul 17 with 8480 views | Joesus_Of_Narbereth |
| Extended families and the UK's open border on 09:34 - Jul 16 by JACKMANANDBOY |
It's not necessarily the EHCR that's the problem, it's how it is interpreted by our judges. Some judges seem to be behaving like activists.
Presumably the 18 will have the same rights.
18x18x18 = 5832. [Post edited 16 Jul 12:49]
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The ECHR only becomes a barrier once they are already here.
The biggest problem is the incentives we offer. Making the journey is an absolute no brainer when you’re offered free housing, healthcare, spending money and everything else you could possibly need.
Take that away and the boats would stop overnight. |  |
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| Extended families and the UK's open border on 17:36 - Jul 17 with 8436 views | onehunglow |
| Extended families and the UK's open border on 15:41 - Jul 17 by Wingstandwood |
Oh to sum up i.e. in a day and age of net-zero deindustrialisation, that's also costing the U.K billions along with AI technology destroying jobs, with high rate tax payers leaving the country by many thousands and with record benefit costs?.... The U.K is adopting a 'safe and legal route' policy for immigration, whereupon once the 'pathfinders' have arrived entire families will be allowed to follow.
Where is the money going to come to pay for all this?
My guess its from higher taxes, that'll?.... Make even more wealthy taxpayers leave the country, that'll? Create catastrophic borrowing costs and end up forcing lower rate tax payers to plug the deficit . Aye, tax the rich and more will leave, that's how the real world works!!!!
The magic-money-tree that lefty-loon nutjobs see as the (Hey Presto Abracadabra) silver bullet to all problems does not exist! |
I’ve commented previously about Starmer and his legacy how do you see it Wingy | |
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| Extended families and the UK's open border on 18:04 - Jul 17 with 8461 views | Wingstandwood |
| Extended families and the UK's open border on 17:36 - Jul 17 by onehunglow |
I’ve commented previously about Starmer and his legacy how do you see it Wingy |
I have never been so pessimistic as when Starmer was in charge, and things look to get even worse. It'll be even worse under Mr Manchester.
A bunch of WOKE, economically illiterate politicians more in touch with 'student activist politics' than they are the 'real world' is some prospect.
I wonder what the national debt will be in another two years time? | |
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| Extended families and the UK's open border on 18:16 - Jul 17 with 8449 views | JACKMANANDBOY |
| Extended families and the UK's open border on 18:04 - Jul 17 by Wingstandwood |
I have never been so pessimistic as when Starmer was in charge, and things look to get even worse. It'll be even worse under Mr Manchester.
A bunch of WOKE, economically illiterate politicians more in touch with 'student activist politics' than they are the 'real world' is some prospect.
I wonder what the national debt will be in another two years time? |
I'm a bit concerned that the few interviews I heard with Labour MPs today were of the congratulatory type saying its all going to be better. | |
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| Extended families and the UK's open border on 18:17 - Jul 17 with 8416 views | onehunglow |
| Extended families and the UK's open border on 18:04 - Jul 17 by Wingstandwood |
I have never been so pessimistic as when Starmer was in charge, and things look to get even worse. It'll be even worse under Mr Manchester.
A bunch of WOKE, economically illiterate politicians more in touch with 'student activist politics' than they are the 'real world' is some prospect.
I wonder what the national debt will be in another two years time? |
I read he will be seen on the same light as John Major , ie , with time he will be seen to have been not really bad at all
This is Labour stalwarts
This govt is overseeing true damage to the fabric of society and yes far more toxic than Thatcher | |
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| Extended families and the UK's open border on 23:37 - Jul 17 with 8404 views | max936 |
Countries finished AJ, the wokey soft left have seen to that and pathetically their numbers are growing, what with the two tier policing as we saw with the Moroccan fans kicking off and the police running away as opposed to them baton charging the so called patriots that Starmer called the far right which an easy assumption to make given his woke tendencies.
And we got another unelected clown from the Fabian society taking over unelected, yet they moaned like bitches when the tories put unelected people in No 10, double standards is alive and well.
Burnham won't last long, you watch. |  | | |
| Extended families and the UK's open border on 23:42 - Jul 17 with 8396 views | max936 |
| Extended families and the UK's open border on 17:10 - Jul 17 by Joesus_Of_Narbereth |
The ECHR only becomes a barrier once they are already here.
The biggest problem is the incentives we offer. Making the journey is an absolute no brainer when you’re offered free housing, healthcare, spending money and everything else you could possibly need.
Take that away and the boats would stop overnight. |
You forgot about that money coming from the hard working British Taxpayer.
This Labour Government is the worst in my lifetime, bar none, we had 14yrs of a useless tory government and now we got this utterly worse bunch of Labour dickheads that we've ever known. | | | |
| Extended families and the UK's open border on 01:35 - Jul 18 with 8378 views | Robbie |
| Extended families and the UK's open border on 18:16 - Jul 17 by JACKMANANDBOY |
I'm a bit concerned that the few interviews I heard with Labour MPs today were of the congratulatory type saying its all going to be better. |
Even dragged out our Lord Neil Kinnock from his easy street role in Brussels and into an afternoon kip in The House of Lords to give a welcome handshake to his team .
Dead wood has beens will now advise our current unproven and unelected leadership . | | | |
| Extended families and the UK's open border on 08:03 - Jul 18 with 8324 views | Whiterockin |
| Extended families and the UK's open border on 18:16 - Jul 17 by JACKMANANDBOY |
I'm a bit concerned that the few interviews I heard with Labour MPs today were of the congratulatory type saying its all going to be better. |
Ironically they are the ones who have made things worse. |  | | |
| Extended families and the UK's open border on 09:36 - Jul 18 with 8293 views | Demitrius |
As Maggie used to say and later parroted by Cameron there is NO Public Money only Taxpayers Money
However much the Gvmt likes to spin it the likes of you and me are paying to feed, house and clothe these migrants ahead of far more deserving causes of our own kith and kin.
It is a racket and a crime against the British people. I want the filth responsible for it not just thrown out of office but prosecuted and jailed.
Currently only one political party is vowing to do just that. |  |
| “Cunnilingus and Psychiatry brought us to this …” |
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| Extended families and the UK's open border on 10:25 - Jul 18 with 8235 views | onehunglow |
| Extended families and the UK's open border on 09:36 - Jul 18 by Demitrius |
As Maggie used to say and later parroted by Cameron there is NO Public Money only Taxpayers Money
However much the Gvmt likes to spin it the likes of you and me are paying to feed, house and clothe these migrants ahead of far more deserving causes of our own kith and kin.
It is a racket and a crime against the British people. I want the filth responsible for it not just thrown out of office but prosecuted and jailed.
Currently only one political party is vowing to do just that. |
Andy will take us back to the 70s apparently when we didn’t have this issue | |
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| Extended families and the UK's open border on 10:37 - Jul 18 with 8257 views | jack_lord |
| Extended families and the UK's open border on 18:04 - Jul 17 by Wingstandwood |
I have never been so pessimistic as when Starmer was in charge, and things look to get even worse. It'll be even worse under Mr Manchester.
A bunch of WOKE, economically illiterate politicians more in touch with 'student activist politics' than they are the 'real world' is some prospect.
I wonder what the national debt will be in another two years time? |
Yes, but all this didn't happen overnight or in the last two years. This government can't be blamed for it but certainly should have some culpability for not, at least, addressing it. They have had an extreme majority and should be pushing through policy that is more than paying us back when you can afford it. The asylum seekers should be allowed to work even if to reduce pressure on the treasury.
Some people will always blame Labour they probably blame them for the extreme heat and the rain when it is too wet but perspective is that the above has now become a deeply entrenched structural issue. As things stand, I can't see how any political party who is in government can solve it. |  |
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| Extended families and the UK's open border on 12:52 - Jul 18 with 8187 views | onehunglow |
| Extended families and the UK's open border on 10:37 - Jul 18 by jack_lord |
Yes, but all this didn't happen overnight or in the last two years. This government can't be blamed for it but certainly should have some culpability for not, at least, addressing it. They have had an extreme majority and should be pushing through policy that is more than paying us back when you can afford it. The asylum seekers should be allowed to work even if to reduce pressure on the treasury.
Some people will always blame Labour they probably blame them for the extreme heat and the rain when it is too wet but perspective is that the above has now become a deeply entrenched structural issue. As things stand, I can't see how any political party who is in government can solve it. |
Some but most blame both Tory and Labour
As I’ve told you before, Conservative PMs have been craven gobshites with one seeing us leave the EU just because of their xenophobia
Johnson was no joke and left us with Starmer there being little alternative
It’s why Reform have grown
Folk see our cities changing for the worst and not one politician on the left has the guts to admit it’s a problem and those on the right just waffle and talk bollox
This country should take NO asylum seekers now | |
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| Extended families and the UK's open border on 16:16 - Jul 18 with 8184 views | jack_lord |
| Extended families and the UK's open border on 12:52 - Jul 18 by onehunglow |
Some but most blame both Tory and Labour
As I’ve told you before, Conservative PMs have been craven gobshites with one seeing us leave the EU just because of their xenophobia
Johnson was no joke and left us with Starmer there being little alternative
It’s why Reform have grown
Folk see our cities changing for the worst and not one politician on the left has the guts to admit it’s a problem and those on the right just waffle and talk bollox
This country should take NO asylum seekers now |
The "non-refoulement" is an absolute bitch | |
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| Extended families and the UK's open border on 01:43 - Jul 19 with 8146 views | Robbie |
His so far opening press releases suggest North Sea drilling as a go to is an option , it is a yes from me there .
Lacking in his promises and commitments on the ultimate scandal , the illegals on small boats and his ideas on stopping them not a word .
The silence is deafening so far , but think of his voters he cannot upset . | | | |
| Extended families and the UK's open border on 04:51 - Jul 19 with 8123 views | AnotherJohn |
| Extended families and the UK's open border on 16:16 - Jul 18 by jack_lord |
The "non-refoulement" is an absolute bitch |
Whether that applies in any meaningful sense depends on whether the persons concerned met the criteria for refugee status under the UN Convention in the first place and if there would be a real risk of persecution if they were returned to their country of origin. Experiencing poverty is not the same as persecution. Refoulement doesn't apply to economic migrants, except in the fertile imagination of their HR lawyers. | | | |
| Extended families and the UK's open border on 12:16 - Jul 19 with 8049 views | jack_lord |
| Extended families and the UK's open border on 04:51 - Jul 19 by AnotherJohn |
Whether that applies in any meaningful sense depends on whether the persons concerned met the criteria for refugee status under the UN Convention in the first place and if there would be a real risk of persecution if they were returned to their country of origin. Experiencing poverty is not the same as persecution. Refoulement doesn't apply to economic migrants, except in the fertile imagination of their HR lawyers. |
Those lawyers should be ashamed of themselves. Is there a website that is allowed to indicate which individuals do this?
My view is that any boat crossing should be treated as a crime and they should be detained until they can prove their asylum status and then the rest should be removed from the country by whichever route is necessary. Economic migrants should only be here legally.
The EU and other European nations should make and have a big pot of money to make the illegal migrants return. Obviously far more complicated in real time but has to start somewhere. | |
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| Extended families and the UK's open border on 18:44 - Jul 19 with 8000 views | max936 |
| Extended families and the UK's open border on 10:37 - Jul 18 by jack_lord |
Yes, but all this didn't happen overnight or in the last two years. This government can't be blamed for it but certainly should have some culpability for not, at least, addressing it. They have had an extreme majority and should be pushing through policy that is more than paying us back when you can afford it. The asylum seekers should be allowed to work even if to reduce pressure on the treasury.
Some people will always blame Labour they probably blame them for the extreme heat and the rain when it is too wet but perspective is that the above has now become a deeply entrenched structural issue. As things stand, I can't see how any political party who is in government can solve it. |
This current Labour party are out of their depth especially, look at those in the cabinet Starmer [gone now I know, should have been booted much much earlier] the clueless Reeves, Starmer has just been giving taxpayers money away in its billions, his final act was to give Pakistan 140 mill for somin or other.
"The asylum seekers should be allowed to work even if to reduce pressure on the treasury". they shouldn't be here and should have been sent back, if they arrived here illegally.
And some are working illegally working for cash in hand for food delivery companies Just Eat, Deliveroo to name, but two | | | |
| Extended families and the UK's open border on 21:49 - Jul 19 with 7943 views | jack_lord |
| Extended families and the UK's open border on 18:44 - Jul 19 by max936 |
This current Labour party are out of their depth especially, look at those in the cabinet Starmer [gone now I know, should have been booted much much earlier] the clueless Reeves, Starmer has just been giving taxpayers money away in its billions, his final act was to give Pakistan 140 mill for somin or other.
"The asylum seekers should be allowed to work even if to reduce pressure on the treasury". they shouldn't be here and should have been sent back, if they arrived here illegally.
And some are working illegally working for cash in hand for food delivery companies Just Eat, Deliveroo to name, but two |
But this is the problem each government faces:
The Legal Framework: The Refugee Convention: Under international law, specifically Article 31 of the 1951 UN Refugee Convention, nations agree not to penalize refugees for unauthorized entry. This applies if they are fleeing direct threats, present themselves to authorities without delay, and show good cause for their irregular entry.
The Physical Presence Requirement: In many countries, including the UK, an individual must be physically present in the destination country to lodge an asylum claim. Because specialized "asylum visas" generally do not exist, critics point out that irregular travel is often the only practical way to apply for protection.
Domestic Legislation: Governments frequently update laws to restrict or deter unauthorized arrivals. For instance, legislation like the UK's Illegal Migration Act has attempted to designate asylum claims from irregular arrivals as inadmissible, though implementing such sweeping measures often faces legal and logistical hurdles
There is so much more after that as well. | |
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| Extended families and the UK's open border on 01:43 - Jul 20 with 7897 views | Robbie |
Priti Patel tried to get the illegals issues under control but failed , albiet under an appalling and lost Conservative Party , leadership was non existent and ready to do another runner .
Over to you Shabana now to sort this mess out , but again a total failure doing doing the role you are expected to do .
Andy Burnham over to you now , I am not holding breath though . | | | |
| Extended families and the UK's open border on 01:51 - Jul 20 with 7890 views | AnotherJohn |
| Extended families and the UK's open border on 21:49 - Jul 19 by jack_lord |
But this is the problem each government faces:
The Legal Framework: The Refugee Convention: Under international law, specifically Article 31 of the 1951 UN Refugee Convention, nations agree not to penalize refugees for unauthorized entry. This applies if they are fleeing direct threats, present themselves to authorities without delay, and show good cause for their irregular entry.
The Physical Presence Requirement: In many countries, including the UK, an individual must be physically present in the destination country to lodge an asylum claim. Because specialized "asylum visas" generally do not exist, critics point out that irregular travel is often the only practical way to apply for protection.
Domestic Legislation: Governments frequently update laws to restrict or deter unauthorized arrivals. For instance, legislation like the UK's Illegal Migration Act has attempted to designate asylum claims from irregular arrivals as inadmissible, though implementing such sweeping measures often faces legal and logistical hurdles
There is so much more after that as well. |
One issue with A31 is that over time HR lawyers and receptive judges have watered down a key element of the original text - the requirement that refugees granted asylum in a country such as the UK came directly from a territory where they were at risk. When drafted A31 was not supposed to be a charter for 'asylum shopping'.
A31
1. The Contracting States shall not impose penalties, on
account of their illegal entry or presence, on refugees
who, coming directly from a territory where their life or
freedom was threatened in the sense of Article 1, enter or
are present in their territory without authorization,
provided they present themselves without delay to the
authorities and show good cause for their illegal entry or
presence.
2. The Contracting States shall not apply to the
movements of such refugees restrictions other than those
which are necessary and such restrictions shall only be
applied until their status in the country is regularized or
they obtain admission into another country. The
Contracting States shall allow such refugees a reasonable
period and all the necessary facilities to obtain admission
into another country. [Post edited 20 Jul 1:54]
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| Extended families and the UK's open border on 14:00 - Jul 20 with 7713 views | onehunglow |
| Extended families and the UK's open border on 12:16 - Jul 19 by jack_lord |
Those lawyers should be ashamed of themselves. Is there a website that is allowed to indicate which individuals do this?
My view is that any boat crossing should be treated as a crime and they should be detained until they can prove their asylum status and then the rest should be removed from the country by whichever route is necessary. Economic migrants should only be here legally.
The EU and other European nations should make and have a big pot of money to make the illegal migrants return. Obviously far more complicated in real time but has to start somewhere. |
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