| Saints charged with spying 09:48 - May 9 with 115392 views | KensalT |
Southampton haven't yet denied these allegations!
For anyone who doesn't know Boro caught someone with some very sophisticated cameras and recording equipment spying on one of their training sessions.
Apparently Boro are looking into the possibility that Saints have done this to other teams this season.
Nightmare timing for the EFL. I can't see any way for them to fudge this
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| Saints charged with spying on 12:31 - May 21 with 3961 views | Bluce_Ree |
| Saints charged with spying on 09:18 - May 21 by KensalT |
I read somewhere that this intern is 27.
Definitely old enough to know what he was doing. |
William Salt? More like Sillyman C*nt to me. |  |
| Stefan Moore, Stefan Moore running down the wing. Stefan Moore, Stefan Moore running down the wing. He runs like a cheetah, his crosses couldn't be sweeter. Stefan Moore. Stefan Moore. Stefan Moore. |
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| Saints charged with spying on 12:48 - May 21 with 3853 views | DWQPR |
| Saints charged with spying on 11:58 - May 21 by nick_hammersmith |
Apparently Ian Wright was a bastard for that as well.
My friend played in a reserves game when he was seeing his career out at West Ham and it was non stop for 90 mins
"What car do you drive?"
"How much do you make a week?"
Combined with Stuart Pearce shouting "Bang!" every time he cleared a ball... |
That came back and bit him in the arśe given that he only just managed to avoid bankruptcy. Once had nine properties by all accounts and had to sell eight leaving with just the one he bought for his mum. |  |
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| Saints charged with spying on 12:56 - May 21 with 3821 views | Dorse |
What I don't understand about this whole sorry incident is that every club employs scouts to watch their opposition, there are data analytics services who can give granular detail on how every single player / team performs and the Championship season is 46 games in duration. Why does any club need to spy on a training session? Especially at this point - they played Boro twice already! What's left to discover for fcks sake?
I have a question though. There is any number of independent, self-proclaimed ITK-type accounts out there. If, for example, one of these people wandered along to a vantage point, watched A N Other training session and recorded what they saw, is that an offence? To extend it, if they revealed this on Twitter, what would / could the EFL do about it? I mean, I'm surprised this hasn't happened previously. |  |
| 'What do we want? We don't know! When do we want it? Now!' |
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| Saints charged with spying on 13:17 - May 21 with 3670 views | nick_hammersmith |
| Saints charged with spying on 12:56 - May 21 by Dorse |
What I don't understand about this whole sorry incident is that every club employs scouts to watch their opposition, there are data analytics services who can give granular detail on how every single player / team performs and the Championship season is 46 games in duration. Why does any club need to spy on a training session? Especially at this point - they played Boro twice already! What's left to discover for fcks sake?
I have a question though. There is any number of independent, self-proclaimed ITK-type accounts out there. If, for example, one of these people wandered along to a vantage point, watched A N Other training session and recorded what they saw, is that an offence? To extend it, if they revealed this on Twitter, what would / could the EFL do about it? I mean, I'm surprised this hasn't happened previously. |
I guess the actual offense is when someone in the employ of the club does these actions?
But, lets say we were playing Watford next week and I had seen them training. If I told Steve Bould that I had seen Imran Luza wearing a yellow bib.
Or them lining up with a back five, or leave two mean up for corners?
Whats he going to do with that information? He doesn't know me, doesn't know if its true and if I'm wrong its actually hurting QPR.
I think a lot of info is shared anyway. Agents have players at multiple clubs and I'm sure they know who is in the starting eleven before we do. After all, how do players get tapped up when they are looking around for transfers.
Its a very small industry, I'm sure everyone knew what was going on and not too many were shocked to hear about Southampton (maybe shocked by the punishment) |  | | |
| Saints charged with spying on 13:22 - May 21 with 3654 views | KensalT |
| Saints charged with spying on 12:56 - May 21 by Dorse |
What I don't understand about this whole sorry incident is that every club employs scouts to watch their opposition, there are data analytics services who can give granular detail on how every single player / team performs and the Championship season is 46 games in duration. Why does any club need to spy on a training session? Especially at this point - they played Boro twice already! What's left to discover for fcks sake?
I have a question though. There is any number of independent, self-proclaimed ITK-type accounts out there. If, for example, one of these people wandered along to a vantage point, watched A N Other training session and recorded what they saw, is that an offence? To extend it, if they revealed this on Twitter, what would / could the EFL do about it? I mean, I'm surprised this hasn't happened previously. |
There are several good reasons for spying on the opposition. Some have already been mentioned on here:
1. When Hull went to Millwall for their playoff second leg they caught Millwall cold by setting up with three at the back. Wawll didn't know how to deal with it and never looked like scoring. If Millwall had known about that in advance the game would have gone very differently.
2. Over 26% of PL goals this season were from set plays. Clubs will always mix up their corner and free kick routines, especially for big games. If you can see what the opposition is rehearsing then you know what's coming at you and can prepare.
3. The same point applies to penalties. There's always a chance of a penalty shootout in the playoffs so a sneak preview of what the opposition is practising can be a big advantage.
4. You can also see who isn't training, and is therefore probably carrying an injury. And we all know how preciously our own CEO guards that information.
There are probably other advantages as well that I haven't thought of.
As you say clubs already spend huge amounts of time and money poring over data that they're allowed to have looking for 'marginal gains'.
The marginal gains to be had from data you're not supposed to have must have great value. | | | |
| Saints charged with spying on 14:19 - May 21 with 3441 views | Lanhoop |
| Saints charged with spying on 12:56 - May 21 by Dorse |
What I don't understand about this whole sorry incident is that every club employs scouts to watch their opposition, there are data analytics services who can give granular detail on how every single player / team performs and the Championship season is 46 games in duration. Why does any club need to spy on a training session? Especially at this point - they played Boro twice already! What's left to discover for fcks sake?
I have a question though. There is any number of independent, self-proclaimed ITK-type accounts out there. If, for example, one of these people wandered along to a vantage point, watched A N Other training session and recorded what they saw, is that an offence? To extend it, if they revealed this on Twitter, what would / could the EFL do about it? I mean, I'm surprised this hasn't happened previously. |
Eckert’s arrival saw them go from a 25% win rate to a 75% win rate with the same players.
Clearly he’s a very clever coach but that’s still a heck of a new manager bounce and surely could only have been achieved with as much opposition information as they could get, either by following the rules or not.
I’d be giving him a long ban and increasing that points deduction so it reflects a lot more than 2 games of spying. | | | |
| Saints charged with spying on 14:19 - May 21 with 3440 views | daveB |
| Saints charged with spying on 12:56 - May 21 by Dorse |
What I don't understand about this whole sorry incident is that every club employs scouts to watch their opposition, there are data analytics services who can give granular detail on how every single player / team performs and the Championship season is 46 games in duration. Why does any club need to spy on a training session? Especially at this point - they played Boro twice already! What's left to discover for fcks sake?
I have a question though. There is any number of independent, self-proclaimed ITK-type accounts out there. If, for example, one of these people wandered along to a vantage point, watched A N Other training session and recorded what they saw, is that an offence? To extend it, if they revealed this on Twitter, what would / could the EFL do about it? I mean, I'm surprised this hasn't happened previously. |
They might have seen them practicing penalties, set pieces, which front 3 they were going to use.
What they had to gain doesn't matter though, just them doing it is the crime |  | | |
| Saints charged with spying on 14:53 - May 21 with 3282 views | Mick_S |
| Saints charged with spying on 07:34 - May 21 by Harbour |
Talk of supporters wanting refunds not just for final tickets and travel but some asking for season ticket refunds.. can see where they are coming from. |
If Spythampton had been found not guilty or got the usual slap on the wrist, would they cancel their season tickets?
No. They’ve got the hump. |  |
| Did I ever mention that I was in Minder? |
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| Saints charged with spying on 14:54 - May 21 with 3262 views | BazzaInTheLoft |
| Saints charged with spying on 14:19 - May 21 by daveB |
They might have seen them practicing penalties, set pieces, which front 3 they were going to use.
What they had to gain doesn't matter though, just them doing it is the crime |
I mentioned this further down the thread, but even if Middlesbrough lined up with that front three, or had those players on penalties, it still wouldn’t be anywhere near guaranteed on match day.
It just feels a bit much to say they’ve lost £200m trying to figure out how Morgan Whittaker might take a penalty. |  | | |
| Saints charged with spying on 14:55 - May 21 with 3267 views | Match82 |
Bit unfair to Hull all this, Boro have had a week to prepare for their opposition, Hull are only going to get 3 days, already bleeding about how they might take someone(don't think they've decided who yet) to court if they lose this weekend. Let me be the first to suggest the way to even that up is for Southampton to share all those video tapes of Boro training with Hull  |  | | |
| Saints charged with spying on 15:12 - May 21 with 3202 views | KensalT |
| Saints charged with spying on 14:54 - May 21 by BazzaInTheLoft |
I mentioned this further down the thread, but even if Middlesbrough lined up with that front three, or had those players on penalties, it still wouldn’t be anywhere near guaranteed on match day.
It just feels a bit much to say they’ve lost £200m trying to figure out how Morgan Whittaker might take a penalty. |
We don't know how many times Saints really spied on opponents.
They haven't lost to an EFL side since Hull away on 17th January. After that game they were in 15th with a goal difference of -1.
We were six points ahead of them at that stage of the season:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/fo
Saints picked up 47 points from their last 19 league games. That's quite a turnaround. They also got to the FA Cup semi final and were leading Man City 1-0 with about ten minutes to go. Along the way they beat Arsenal.
Maybe they didn't need to cheat to achieve all that. But I have my doubts.
A likelier explanation is that they wouldn't have made the playoffs at all if they hadn't been cheating | | | |
| Saints charged with spying on 16:07 - May 21 with 3078 views | Superhoops2808 |
| Saints charged with spying on 10:28 - May 21 by terryb |
The EFL set the precedent earlier this season when they removed Swindon from the EFL Trophy after they had won their semi final for cheating & reinstated Luton.
It has been common practice for decades for the FA to chuck clubs out of their competitions for playing ineligible players, so removal was basically cast in stone. Provided you accept that the play offs are a different competition to the regular league season! |
Not quite correct. But all the same the precedent was set
The breaches relate to the Club fielding two ineligible players against Luton Town in the Vertu Trophy Round of 16 tie on 13th January 2026. Swindon Town won the game 2-1 |  | | |
| Saints charged with spying on 16:34 - May 21 with 2989 views | VancouverHoop |
Eckert's excuse that "They do it in the Bundesliga," sounds a bit unlikely to say the least. If it was allowed in Germany then why don't Dortmund's scouts just sit in the stands at Bayern's practices, for example? It's possible that there's no specific rule against it it guess. But I'm sure if it does goes on there it would be super-clandestine, not just some poor sod with a laptop hiding behind a tree. | | | |
| Saints charged with spying on 16:41 - May 21 with 2949 views | Northernr |
| Saints charged with spying on 16:34 - May 21 by VancouverHoop |
Eckert's excuse that "They do it in the Bundesliga," sounds a bit unlikely to say the least. If it was allowed in Germany then why don't Dortmund's scouts just sit in the stands at Bayern's practices, for example? It's possible that there's no specific rule against it it guess. But I'm sure if it does goes on there it would be super-clandestine, not just some poor sod with a laptop hiding behind a tree. |
He was also Barnsley assistant boss while Bielsa was being hauled over the coals for it at Leeds so... he fcking knew full well. |  | | |
| Saints charged with spying on 22:06 - May 21 with 2464 views | E17hoop |
| Saints charged with spying on 16:41 - May 21 by Northernr |
He was also Barnsley assistant boss while Bielsa was being hauled over the coals for it at Leeds so... he fcking knew full well. |
Not much, the written report is damning.
https://images.gc.eflservices.
It was deliberate, organised, shared and analysed internally
It involved sensitive football information
Junior staff were put under pressure
The Middlesbrough incident happened during the play-offs
A fine was considered inadequate
Southampton’s mitigation was only partly accepted |  |
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| Saints charged with spying on 22:23 - May 21 with 2418 views | OldPedro |
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/fo
This BBC article gives all the details of the commissions findings - well worth a read |  |
| Extra mature cheddar......a simple cheese for a simple man |
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| Saints charged with spying on 22:31 - May 21 with 2390 views | numptydumpty |
I reckon Tonda Eckert who is in his early 30s, I believe, could well be an excellent manager.
Total speculation, but whatever they could be gaining from random films of opponents training sessions, i would think, the difference made to outcome of games played could have been minimal.
He could get a half season ban, but if we forget our moral compass, we could get a decent manager at this level probably for half the price, that he should be....
All's fair in love and war...
Just a thought. [Post edited 21 May 22:33]
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| Saints charged with spying on 23:06 - May 21 with 2350 views | daveB |
| Saints charged with spying on 14:55 - May 21 by Match82 |
Bit unfair to Hull all this, Boro have had a week to prepare for their opposition, Hull are only going to get 3 days, already bleeding about how they might take someone(don't think they've decided who yet) to court if they lose this weekend. Let me be the first to suggest the way to even that up is for Southampton to share all those video tapes of Boro training with Hull |
Boro didn't know they were playing until Tuesday and only confirmed on Wednesday so I doubt the players have been doing much work, they only came back to full training yesterday. | | | |
| Saints charged with spying on 00:19 - May 22 with 2225 views | PunteR |
Football 2026.
As if things like this haven't been going on since 1882.
Its funny though. [Post edited 22 May 0:20]
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| Occasional providers of half decent House music. |
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| Saints charged with spying on 07:56 - May 22 with 1981 views | GaryBannister86 |
| Saints charged with spying on 00:19 - May 22 by PunteR |
Football 2026.
As if things like this haven't been going on since 1882.
Its funny though. [Post edited 22 May 0:20]
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"Mr Eckert accepted that he had specifically authorised the observations to obtain information about formation (in the Oxford incident) and about the availability of a key player (in the Middlesbrough incident)."
Sure it's a game of fine margins but I can't believe the manager couldn't back his squad of basically PL players to beat Oxford United fair and square without advance knowledge of their formation (or just based on normal scouting reports). That he deliberately wanted to have this in place in advance, he was so concerned about it.
I know they didn't beat them anyway, but I just can't get my head around it. |  | | |
| Saints charged with spying on 07:57 - May 22 with 1982 views | Hastings_Hoops |
To the tune of gold finger…
“Ryan Manning da da da
Ryan Manning da da da
he’s the one that left us on a free…
For Swansea
…Ryan Manning da da da”. |  | | |
| Saints charged with spying on 09:13 - May 22 with 1859 views | KensalT |
| Saints charged with spying on 07:56 - May 22 by GaryBannister86 |
"Mr Eckert accepted that he had specifically authorised the observations to obtain information about formation (in the Oxford incident) and about the availability of a key player (in the Middlesbrough incident)."
Sure it's a game of fine margins but I can't believe the manager couldn't back his squad of basically PL players to beat Oxford United fair and square without advance knowledge of their formation (or just based on normal scouting reports). That he deliberately wanted to have this in place in advance, he was so concerned about it.
I know they didn't beat them anyway, but I just can't get my head around it. |
They didn't win any of the games they coughed to - funny that!
They were trying to prove that they gained nothing from spying so shouldn't be punished for it.
Tribunal said it didn't make any difference, it was the act of spying that was wrong not the final result. | | | |
| Saints charged with spying on 09:58 - May 22 with 1751 views | francisbowles |
| Saints charged with spying on 13:22 - May 21 by KensalT |
There are several good reasons for spying on the opposition. Some have already been mentioned on here:
1. When Hull went to Millwall for their playoff second leg they caught Millwall cold by setting up with three at the back. Wawll didn't know how to deal with it and never looked like scoring. If Millwall had known about that in advance the game would have gone very differently.
2. Over 26% of PL goals this season were from set plays. Clubs will always mix up their corner and free kick routines, especially for big games. If you can see what the opposition is rehearsing then you know what's coming at you and can prepare.
3. The same point applies to penalties. There's always a chance of a penalty shootout in the playoffs so a sneak preview of what the opposition is practising can be a big advantage.
4. You can also see who isn't training, and is therefore probably carrying an injury. And we all know how preciously our own CEO guards that information.
There are probably other advantages as well that I haven't thought of.
As you say clubs already spend huge amounts of time and money poring over data that they're allowed to have looking for 'marginal gains'.
The marginal gains to be had from data you're not supposed to have must have great value. |
Other examples are our home game with Charlton, when our going more direct caught out Jones. He admitted as much in the media.
Villa's set pieces first goal in the Europa final. That probably wouldn't even have been attempted if the German side had been tipped off and marked Tielemans.
Another point is the losing £200 million. They will still get a parachute payment, around £40 million. So any potential loss is up to £160 million. | | | |
| Saints charged with spying on 10:11 - May 22 with 1718 views | Dorse |
| Saints charged with spying on 09:58 - May 22 by francisbowles |
Other examples are our home game with Charlton, when our going more direct caught out Jones. He admitted as much in the media.
Villa's set pieces first goal in the Europa final. That probably wouldn't even have been attempted if the German side had been tipped off and marked Tielemans.
Another point is the losing £200 million. They will still get a parachute payment, around £40 million. So any potential loss is up to £160 million. |
They haven't actually lost anything: they were neither promoted or relegated, which places them in exactly the same position as 17 other Championship sides. For them claim they lost anything is ridiculous. Even to claim they lost the opportunity to win it is disingenuous because they had the same chance as anyone else.
Cry me a fcking river. | |
| 'What do we want? We don't know! When do we want it? Now!' |
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| Saints charged with spying on 10:58 - May 22 with 1653 views | TK1 |
| Saints charged with spying on 16:41 - May 21 by Northernr |
He was also Barnsley assistant boss while Bielsa was being hauled over the coals for it at Leeds so... he fcking knew full well. |
I was listening to 5Live before the Villa game and they had this big debate about the cultural football differences in Germany, Archie Rhind-Tutt describing how spying is regarded as a skill in its own right there and all part of the game so he may not have known, everyone agreeing...
I was shouting at the radio "he was at Barnsley! He fcking knew!" Though having just googled it, he did join a year after Spygate. But he still knew. Just look at him. | | | |
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