| NHS doomed still? 12:00 - Apr 27 with 3589 views | Professor |
As some of you may be aware, there have been some right-wing commentators bleating how the problems with the epidemic show the NHS is not fit-for-purpose. I genuinely worry in 18 months time this 'failure' will be highlighted as a way to change the structure to and insurance-based system entirely. Is this just my paranoia or anyone else worry about this. It will be sold as out hard working NHS professionals are let down by an archaic system. |  | | |  |
| NHS doomed still? on 12:04 - Apr 27 with 2862 views | magicdaps10 |
Can't see it myself. This will just show how much we rely on the NHS and how important it is to the country.... The NHS will have the upper ground for a few years to come, anything else will not be accepted by the people.
Only thing that will be highlighted will bethe lack of funding from the govermant and its obvious angle of making it private. |  |
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| NHS doomed still? on 12:09 - Apr 27 with 2839 views | legoman |
I for one cannot possibly support an insurance based health system. I believe no UK government will bring such a system in as that will be, quite rightly, a massive vote loser.
We must never give up our NHS. |  |
| "M'sieur, you said your dog did not bite!"
"That's not my dog" |
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| NHS doomed still? on 12:14 - Apr 27 with 2832 views | Swanjaxs |
As understaffed and underfunded the NHS is, when this is all over, we will all remember it was the hard working, grossly underpaid staff that pulled us through...
The system needs to change, has to change, to make our NHS stronger 👠|  |
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| NHS doomed still? on 12:16 - Apr 27 with 2821 views | monmouth |
If it does and the 'great' British public puts up with it after all we've seen, then we deserve whatever Yankee shit we are fed. |  |
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| NHS doomed still? on 12:29 - Apr 27 with 2793 views | Best_loser |
| NHS doomed still? on 12:16 - Apr 27 by monmouth |
If it does and the 'great' British public puts up with it after all we've seen, then we deserve whatever Yankee shit we are fed. |
After this it should be safe for a few years, it will have to be funded more from higher taxation |  | | |
| NHS doomed still? on 12:32 - Apr 27 with 2787 views | WarwickHunt |
| NHS doomed still? on 12:16 - Apr 27 by monmouth |
If it does and the 'great' British public puts up with it after all we've seen, then we deserve whatever Yankee shit we are fed. |
I've just bought shares in Domestos. |  | | |
| NHS doomed still? on 12:43 - Apr 27 with 2759 views | Glyn1 |
I suppose it depends on what American pharmaceutical companies will insist on in return for a trade deal with the US.
I doubt if anything will happen that fast but I can see it happening more gradually and in the name of freedom of choice and patient power, which would appeal to Conservatives and the Daily Mail.
For example, all medicines would be sold in the UK, not just the ones that the NHS bulk buys, and they are advertised on TV as happens in the US. Their prices go up as well. [Post edited 27 Apr 2020 12:44]
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| NHS doomed still? on 12:51 - Apr 27 with 2730 views | Joe_bradshaw |
We need to have an adult debate about funding outlining what we can and cannot afford. We need to take health (and education in my view) out of politics and agree a way forward with all stakeholders included in the discussion and all political parties agreeing on a short, medium and long term strategy for the NHS.
I am aware that I live on fantasy island in this. |  |
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| NHS doomed still? on 12:56 - Apr 27 with 2717 views | bennytheblue |
Reckon they will invest in it properly now, about time too. Should be written in stone along with education so no new gov can phuck with it. 200 billion for a nuke sub?? Hs1 bollox.....waste of money |  | | |
| NHS doomed still? on 13:08 - Apr 27 with 2701 views | Glyn1 |
| NHS doomed still? on 12:51 - Apr 27 by Joe_bradshaw |
We need to have an adult debate about funding outlining what we can and cannot afford. We need to take health (and education in my view) out of politics and agree a way forward with all stakeholders included in the discussion and all political parties agreeing on a short, medium and long term strategy for the NHS.
I am aware that I live on fantasy island in this. |
We can't take health and education out of politics, because politics exists precisely to make decisions about those sorts of issues.
But I have to agree with Bluey. I've been surprised how little we spend on the NHS as a nation compared with Germany and France on their own healthcare systems. | |
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| NHS doomed still? on 13:27 - Apr 27 with 2674 views | Catullus |
| NHS doomed still? on 13:08 - Apr 27 by Glyn1 |
We can't take health and education out of politics, because politics exists precisely to make decisions about those sorts of issues.
But I have to agree with Bluey. I've been surprised how little we spend on the NHS as a nation compared with Germany and France on their own healthcare systems. |
This is why I am against renewing/replacing Trident. All that money for a weapon we'll never use and if we did need to use it we're all dead anyway, what is the point.
We don't need to be a big player on the world stage, we need to look after our own country properly. Trident will cost about 4 billion per year. HS2 is going to cost well over 100 billion. That's 8 billion per year for 25 years we could invest in the UK to start with.
On the OP, I'm hoping that no government will ever again consider running down or underfunding the NHS and that the people will be very loud in their support of our wonderful health care services. | |
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| NHS doomed still? on 13:32 - Apr 27 with 2666 views | NotLoyal |
NHS has been on the brink since day one, pathetic scaremongering reporting that displays how much the news media want to control what you know and believe. |  |
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| NHS doomed still? on 13:45 - Apr 27 with 2646 views | Highjack |
| NHS doomed still? on 13:27 - Apr 27 by Catullus |
This is why I am against renewing/replacing Trident. All that money for a weapon we'll never use and if we did need to use it we're all dead anyway, what is the point.
We don't need to be a big player on the world stage, we need to look after our own country properly. Trident will cost about 4 billion per year. HS2 is going to cost well over 100 billion. That's 8 billion per year for 25 years we could invest in the UK to start with.
On the OP, I'm hoping that no government will ever again consider running down or underfunding the NHS and that the people will be very loud in their support of our wonderful health care services. |
That’s the stupid thing about trident. We don’t actually need to have it. We just need other countries to think we do have it. |  |
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| NHS doomed still? on 13:49 - Apr 27 with 2638 views | Joe_bradshaw |
| NHS doomed still? on 13:08 - Apr 27 by Glyn1 |
We can't take health and education out of politics, because politics exists precisely to make decisions about those sorts of issues.
But I have to agree with Bluey. I've been surprised how little we spend on the NHS as a nation compared with Germany and France on their own healthcare systems. |
We could take them out of politics and that would result in a crucial change to the way we look at health and eduction. The biggest issue is short-termism which is the direct result of political involvement in them. Politicians are only interested in either getting into power or staying in power with the result that policy is a five year plan at the very most and frequently less. | |
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| NHS doomed still? on 13:55 - Apr 27 with 2623 views | airedale |
| NHS doomed still? on 13:45 - Apr 27 by Highjack |
That’s the stupid thing about trident. We don’t actually need to have it. We just need other countries to think we do have it. |
How do you know we don’t already do that huh. Nudge nudge, wink wink?
Those subs you see on the telly up in Jockoland could be made out of cardboard covered with black plastic for all you know. You’re never going to get close enough to find out are you. |  | | |
| NHS doomed still? on 17:09 - Apr 27 with 2535 views | monmouth |
| NHS doomed still? on 13:49 - Apr 27 by Joe_bradshaw |
We could take them out of politics and that would result in a crucial change to the way we look at health and eduction. The biggest issue is short-termism which is the direct result of political involvement in them. Politicians are only interested in either getting into power or staying in power with the result that policy is a five year plan at the very most and frequently less. |
We need less reorganisations and stupid ideological shit too, so yes, get the morons in politics out of it, and the professional 'managers' who have destroyed (or are in the process of destroying if we take HE) orgabnisions that worked perfectly well before any of them existed. Same with schools and universities.
Oh and stop any lawsuits against any of them immediately. Want to use them? OK then f*ck off with the legal shite and take your chances unless there is a criminal matter. | |
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| NHS doomed still? on 19:56 - Apr 27 with 2407 views | PozuelosSideys |
Not. A.Chance. No Government would risk removing the free at the point of use system that we have now. Political suicide. Especially now.
Thing is, the NHS is an absolute behemoth. Say the words NHS and people immediately think front line doctors and nurses. The reality there is a huge infrastructure behind it which incurs huge costs and in many areas, a bit sh1t. This diverts funding from the areas of the service which need it - front life staff, their wages, equipment etc.
The archaic system is poor and needs to be overhauled, but im not sure even i would say the Gvernment or any of their consultats could be trusted to improve it in a way thats needed. Chances are it would be worse. You could try to run it like a private enterprise but given what it is, it would end up with huge chunks of PPV and nobody wants that.
Fact is, it was a system set up to support nowhere near the amount of people that use it now. We can blame Governments and workers or whatever. But plenty of the UK population are th1ck as fck and shouldnt be going anywhere near A&E or whatever for the bumped elbow or regular saturday night stomach pump. |  |
| "Michu, Britton and Williams could have won 3-0 on their own. They wouldn't have required a keeper." | | Poll: | Hattricks |
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| NHS doomed still? on 20:08 - Apr 27 with 2382 views | BillyChong |
The Mail have already started the mud slinging, disgrace of a rag | | | |
| NHS doomed still? on 20:32 - Apr 27 with 2358 views | waynekerr55 |
I'm afraid nothing is off the table in my view.
We have the leadership we deserve. Thanks Swinson and Corbyn, you utter, utter pair of brain dead shìt heads. |  |
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| NHS doomed still? on 20:43 - Apr 27 with 2344 views | Catullus |
| NHS doomed still? on 19:56 - Apr 27 by PozuelosSideys |
Not. A.Chance. No Government would risk removing the free at the point of use system that we have now. Political suicide. Especially now.
Thing is, the NHS is an absolute behemoth. Say the words NHS and people immediately think front line doctors and nurses. The reality there is a huge infrastructure behind it which incurs huge costs and in many areas, a bit sh1t. This diverts funding from the areas of the service which need it - front life staff, their wages, equipment etc.
The archaic system is poor and needs to be overhauled, but im not sure even i would say the Gvernment or any of their consultats could be trusted to improve it in a way thats needed. Chances are it would be worse. You could try to run it like a private enterprise but given what it is, it would end up with huge chunks of PPV and nobody wants that.
Fact is, it was a system set up to support nowhere near the amount of people that use it now. We can blame Governments and workers or whatever. But plenty of the UK population are th1ck as fck and shouldnt be going anywhere near A&E or whatever for the bumped elbow or regular saturday night stomach pump. |
My wife has worked in the NHS for over 20 years for 2 trusts and her most common complaint is the amount of waste. Then she moves onto why does a packet of paracetamol is asda cost 16p but it costs the NHS £7? This devolved NHS system is costing a fortune is all these different procurement depts, all the extra admin costs and of course, there's the postcode lottery for treatment. | |
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| NHS doomed still? on 20:48 - Apr 27 with 2336 views | Dr_Winston |
| NHS doomed still? on 19:56 - Apr 27 by PozuelosSideys |
Not. A.Chance. No Government would risk removing the free at the point of use system that we have now. Political suicide. Especially now.
Thing is, the NHS is an absolute behemoth. Say the words NHS and people immediately think front line doctors and nurses. The reality there is a huge infrastructure behind it which incurs huge costs and in many areas, a bit sh1t. This diverts funding from the areas of the service which need it - front life staff, their wages, equipment etc.
The archaic system is poor and needs to be overhauled, but im not sure even i would say the Gvernment or any of their consultats could be trusted to improve it in a way thats needed. Chances are it would be worse. You could try to run it like a private enterprise but given what it is, it would end up with huge chunks of PPV and nobody wants that.
Fact is, it was a system set up to support nowhere near the amount of people that use it now. We can blame Governments and workers or whatever. But plenty of the UK population are th1ck as fck and shouldnt be going anywhere near A&E or whatever for the bumped elbow or regular saturday night stomach pump. |
Agree with all of that. The NHS is the fifth largest employer in the World. Nearly 2m people work for it. There has to be a better way.
Most people would say that the German system has performed best in the current circumstances, yet something like 60% of German hospitals are privately owned, private health insurance is mandatory for those who can afford it and there are varying levels of service depending upon how much you pay.
Any one of those three things would be treated with horror if suggested here, never mind all three of them. |  |
| Pain or damage don't end the world. Or despair, or f*cking beatings. The world ends when you're dead. Until then, you got more punishment in store. Stand it like a man... and give some back. |
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| NHS doomed still? on 23:02 - Apr 27 with 2259 views | longlostjack |
| NHS doomed still? on 20:48 - Apr 27 by Dr_Winston |
Agree with all of that. The NHS is the fifth largest employer in the World. Nearly 2m people work for it. There has to be a better way.
Most people would say that the German system has performed best in the current circumstances, yet something like 60% of German hospitals are privately owned, private health insurance is mandatory for those who can afford it and there are varying levels of service depending upon how much you pay.
Any one of those three things would be treated with horror if suggested here, never mind all three of them. |
Sorry Doc. Private insurance is not mandatory for those who can afford it and 60% of hospitals are not privately owned in the sense that people in the UK understand by private. Not sure where you're getting your information from. [Post edited 27 Apr 2020 23:05]
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| NHS doomed still? on 08:24 - Apr 28 with 2144 views | Dr_Winston |
| NHS doomed still? on 23:02 - Apr 27 by longlostjack |
Sorry Doc. Private insurance is not mandatory for those who can afford it and 60% of hospitals are not privately owned in the sense that people in the UK understand by private. Not sure where you're getting your information from. [Post edited 27 Apr 2020 23:05]
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Few places. If they're wrong then fair enough. Whether people understand hospital ownership "in the sense" doesn't much matter. If they're not owned by the state then they're owned privately, be that by a business or a church or a charity, run for profit or not.
At the very least the system is run in a significantly different way to the way it is here, and carrying on with business as usual does nobody any favours, least of all the NHS. | |
| Pain or damage don't end the world. Or despair, or f*cking beatings. The world ends when you're dead. Until then, you got more punishment in store. Stand it like a man... and give some back. |
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| NHS doomed still? on 08:48 - Apr 28 with 2121 views | Catullus |
| NHS doomed still? on 08:24 - Apr 28 by Dr_Winston |
Few places. If they're wrong then fair enough. Whether people understand hospital ownership "in the sense" doesn't much matter. If they're not owned by the state then they're owned privately, be that by a business or a church or a charity, run for profit or not.
At the very least the system is run in a significantly different way to the way it is here, and carrying on with business as usual does nobody any favours, least of all the NHS. |
So it's a 7% compulsory insurance and before tax. Germany pays 11% of it's wealth for healthcare compared to 9.8% in the UK and, what was really shocking (in a good way and remembering this story is from 2017) is the waiting time for a hip replacement, it was 3/4 weeks. In 2016 I was told I needed a new hip and I'm still waiting. I waitd so long in the first instance I developed other health problems which in turn held up the hip replacement. Of course it's on hld again now!
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-38899811
In Germany I would have had my hip replaced roughly 40 times (before Covid) by now. I love the NHS and it's not the staffs fault but something has to change. Government attitude to start with. | |
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| NHS doomed still? on 10:00 - Apr 28 with 2076 views | monmouth |
| NHS doomed still? on 08:48 - Apr 28 by Catullus |
So it's a 7% compulsory insurance and before tax. Germany pays 11% of it's wealth for healthcare compared to 9.8% in the UK and, what was really shocking (in a good way and remembering this story is from 2017) is the waiting time for a hip replacement, it was 3/4 weeks. In 2016 I was told I needed a new hip and I'm still waiting. I waitd so long in the first instance I developed other health problems which in turn held up the hip replacement. Of course it's on hld again now!
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-38899811
In Germany I would have had my hip replaced roughly 40 times (before Covid) by now. I love the NHS and it's not the staffs fault but something has to change. Government attitude to start with. |
The first step is to stop the denial and the myths and accept:
We do not have 'the best health service in the world'. There are better models now.
Choices on treatment have to be made (by doctors preferably)
There is risk to entering a hospital or surgery that should not be compensated by money
'Competition' is not necessary and neither are 'markets', internal or otherwise
health care and social care need to be joined again.
Excellent health and social care needs high (progressive) taxes
100bn is better spent on healthcare than things like rail vanity projects
Health (and education) are not for political gameplaying
Queue jumping through paying privately is unethical.
I guess the first decision is what it is actually for though. Safety net or everyman service for some things or everything.
Nothing will happen of course, except continuing the same trajectory that we are on and more and more bullshit from politicians, and bullying and silencing of staff. | |
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