| Keir Starmer 23:54 - Sep 24 with 5737 views | WalterBoyd |
Thinks decriminalising class A drugs is the way forward.
A vote winner ? |  | | |  |
| Keir Starmer on 08:11 - Sep 25 with 1669 views | builthjack |
Drugs are for mugs. |  |
| Swansea Indepenent Poster Of The Year 2021. Dr P / Mart66 / Roathie / Parlay / E20/ Duffle was 2nd, but he is deluded and thinks in his little twisted brain that he won. Poor sod. We let him win this year, as he has cried for a whole year. His 14 usernames, bless his cotton socks.
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| Keir Starmer on 08:30 - Sep 25 with 1659 views | onehunglow |
| Keir Starmer on 08:11 - Sep 25 by builthjack |
Drugs are for mugs. |
Yep.
Never knew anyone who enjoyed being a heroin addict.
It leads one way
Drugs kill .It's why they are criminialised | |
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| Keir Starmer on 08:41 - Sep 25 with 1635 views | Dr_Winston |
He's right.
Prohibition doesn't work. Has never worked. So much petty acquisitive crime is a direct result of the drugs trade. All you're doing is creating a lucrative industry for those of a criminal persuasion.
Legalise, control and treat. Draconian sentences for those selling outside the law or commiting crimes to fund purchases outside the law. |  |
| Pain or damage don't end the world. Or despair, or f*cking beatings. The world ends when you're dead. Until then, you got more punishment in store. Stand it like a man... and give some back. |
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| Keir Starmer on 10:13 - Sep 25 with 1623 views | Kilkennyjack |
I am not interested in anything Keith says until he stands against Brexit.
This is like discussing garden furnture for next summer when your house is on fire.
Call Johnson out.
Say its turned out badly and its wrong.
Rejoin the single market and customs union to enable the flow of goods to return. |  |
| Beware of the Risen People
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| Keir Starmer on 10:22 - Sep 25 with 1621 views | onehunglow |
| Keir Starmer on 10:13 - Sep 25 by Kilkennyjack |
I am not interested in anything Keith says until he stands against Brexit.
This is like discussing garden furnture for next summer when your house is on fire.
Call Johnson out.
Say its turned out badly and its wrong.
Rejoin the single market and customs union to enable the flow of goods to return. |
I was against us leaving.
But we have and we get on with it,Killy.
As regards drugs ,why is it the left are least concerned with drug enforcement.
We have to create a society where people do not want to shove shyte into their veins. Legalising it will not help. People will still do it,in fact more will and more lives will be destroyed because of drugs. Why should society pay for people to do smack and coke.I d rather we ensure people eat and eat well.
We have yet to have a Government that truly fought drugs.
Conservative Home Secs have been ,as a rule,appalling lying trash willing to use and misuse Police Service as a whole.Never have they passed law that are simple and help.
Labour are simply beyond the pale as regards upholding the law of the land.
"working class" people are those that need most protection from criminal scum.
They ahve never really received it from anyone | |
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| Keir Starmer on 10:48 - Sep 25 with 1602 views | Catullus |
| Keir Starmer on 08:41 - Sep 25 by Dr_Winston |
He's right.
Prohibition doesn't work. Has never worked. So much petty acquisitive crime is a direct result of the drugs trade. All you're doing is creating a lucrative industry for those of a criminal persuasion.
Legalise, control and treat. Draconian sentences for those selling outside the law or commiting crimes to fund purchases outside the law. |
I've been sayin this for a while. Take the profits away from the criminals and put them in the exchequer.
We'd know who all the addicts were and make it easier to help them get treatment. It'd be worth making it a loss leader to put the big dealers out of business.
It'd have to go hand in hand with far more severe sentencing for dealing/supplying and buying from illegal sources though, Carrot and stick working together. | |
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| Keir Starmer on 10:55 - Sep 25 with 1590 views | JACKMANANDBOY |
| Keir Starmer on 10:48 - Sep 25 by Catullus |
I've been sayin this for a while. Take the profits away from the criminals and put them in the exchequer.
We'd know who all the addicts were and make it easier to help them get treatment. It'd be worth making it a loss leader to put the big dealers out of business.
It'd have to go hand in hand with far more severe sentencing for dealing/supplying and buying from illegal sources though, Carrot and stick working together. |
I'm of a similar opinion, I'm not sure it gets many votes though unfortunately. |  |
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| Keir Starmer on 10:59 - Sep 25 with 1581 views | Sirjohnalot |
| Keir Starmer on 10:48 - Sep 25 by Catullus |
I've been sayin this for a while. Take the profits away from the criminals and put them in the exchequer.
We'd know who all the addicts were and make it easier to help them get treatment. It'd be worth making it a loss leader to put the big dealers out of business.
It'd have to go hand in hand with far more severe sentencing for dealing/supplying and buying from illegal sources though, Carrot and stick working together. |
Penalties for dealing are already severe, problem is most dealers (or at least those that get caught) are addicts themselves. Ben Elton wrote a great book on this called ‘High Society’, worth reading.
I’d agree with legalisation. I’ve seen the devastation that drugs, including cannabis does. Regulation is the only way we”ll never win the war on drugs, but this would devastate many criminal gangs overnight [Post edited 25 Sep 2021 11:36]
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| Keir Starmer on 11:15 - Sep 25 with 1566 views | Lohengrin |
| Keir Starmer on 10:59 - Sep 25 by Sirjohnalot |
Penalties for dealing are already severe, problem is most dealers (or at least those that get caught) are addicts themselves. Ben Elton wrote a great book on this called ‘High Society’, worth reading.
I’d agree with legalisation. I’ve seen the devastation that drugs, including cannabis does. Regulation is the only way we”ll never win the war on drugs, but this would devastate many criminal gangs overnight [Post edited 25 Sep 2021 11:36]
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Government with the will to act decisively would devastate criminal gangs overnight, John. |  |
| An idea isn't responsible for those who believe in it. |
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| Keir Starmer on 11:16 - Sep 25 with 1545 views | Dr_Winston |
It's truly crazy that there are still people out there wanting an even tougher "war on drugs". They've tried that in America, with people getting life sentences for Marijuana possession. It doesn't work. It's like banging your head against a wall to try and cure migraines.
Portugal decriminalised drugs 20 years ago and have seen great benefits from it. | |
| Pain or damage don't end the world. Or despair, or f*cking beatings. The world ends when you're dead. Until then, you got more punishment in store. Stand it like a man... and give some back. |
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| Keir Starmer on 11:16 - Sep 25 with 1565 views | jackrmee |
| Keir Starmer on 08:41 - Sep 25 by Dr_Winston |
He's right.
Prohibition doesn't work. Has never worked. So much petty acquisitive crime is a direct result of the drugs trade. All you're doing is creating a lucrative industry for those of a criminal persuasion.
Legalise, control and treat. Draconian sentences for those selling outside the law or commiting crimes to fund purchases outside the law. |
Good post.
Not only do the criminals get richer, the majority of deaths are due to the criminalisation of drugs.
I don't know the figures off hand, but the majority of heroin overdoses are not due to people simply taking too much, or a new user not being ready or used to it.
Many of the deaths are of veteran users, who simply don't know how pure their drugs are.
One day they may receive a bag which is not as adulterated (not sure if that's the correct word, before I'm corrected) and mixed with so much crap that its as little as 0.1% pure. They may be used to this and know how much they can use at a time. Then one day they may buy the same amount of heroin and this may be 30% pure, or even been cut with a crazy new synthetic type of opioid called fentanyl. This may cause the drug to be much more potent. Therefore, they may be injecting the same amount of heroin from one day to the next. One day it may not even give them a buzz, the next it may be lethally strong.
Legalisation would enable drugs to be used safely.
There are drug consumption rooms in Holland, where users can go to use their drugs. There are qualified staff there and clean syringes and tools. They are not pressured, but the staff are there to provide or signpost to services, if the person would like to address their issues.
Portugal have decriminalised all drugs and overdose rates have plummeted. Along with HIV rates, addiction rates, along with many other things.
USA have shown how cannabis legalisation has made them billions in taxes.
A very good book on the war on drugs and how it affects humans, is Chasing The Scream, by Johan Hari.
100% recommend it. |  |
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| Keir Starmer on 11:20 - Sep 25 with 1558 views | jackrmee |
| Keir Starmer on 10:22 - Sep 25 by onehunglow |
I was against us leaving.
But we have and we get on with it,Killy.
As regards drugs ,why is it the left are least concerned with drug enforcement.
We have to create a society where people do not want to shove shyte into their veins. Legalising it will not help. People will still do it,in fact more will and more lives will be destroyed because of drugs. Why should society pay for people to do smack and coke.I d rather we ensure people eat and eat well.
We have yet to have a Government that truly fought drugs.
Conservative Home Secs have been ,as a rule,appalling lying trash willing to use and misuse Police Service as a whole.Never have they passed law that are simple and help.
Labour are simply beyond the pale as regards upholding the law of the land.
"working class" people are those that need most protection from criminal scum.
They ahve never really received it from anyone |
People have always taken things to change their consciousness. Be it alcohol, coffee, or other drugs.
Portugal shows that decriminalisation does not lead to more people taking drugs. The opposite in fact.
Also, society pays now. Society doesn't pay when they are decriminalised, as they make money from the sale of the drugs, instead of this going to criminals, whom the kingpins are usually not even from the host country. | |
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| Keir Starmer on 11:28 - Sep 25 with 1546 views | majorraglan |
| Keir Starmer on 10:48 - Sep 25 by Catullus |
I've been sayin this for a while. Take the profits away from the criminals and put them in the exchequer.
We'd know who all the addicts were and make it easier to help them get treatment. It'd be worth making it a loss leader to put the big dealers out of business.
It'd have to go hand in hand with far more severe sentencing for dealing/supplying and buying from illegal sources though, Carrot and stick working together. |
To be honest we need to have a grown up mature conversation about drugs and the enforcement of criminal legislation.
Drugs are a blight on society and cause no end of harm and misery to the addict, their family and society. The dealers also use violence to enforce debts, coerce people in to dealing and generally “rule” by using extreme violence. The criminals at the top of the chain responsible for the dealing make huge amounts of money and legalising drugs will close this revenue stream down, but I suspect they would just move in to something else like people smuggling assuming their not already at it.
As OHL states, successive Home Secretaries have talked a good game but delivered little and once people start talking about legalising drugs the Daily Mail readership etc will be up in arms. There a lot of talk about being tough on crime blah blah blah, but prison capacity hasn’t really changed a great deal and if we are locking up more rapists, child porn merchants, terrorists etc there’s less room for people at the lower end of the offending* spectrum - albeit some are career criminals.
Treatment services for addicts etc are very limited and difficult to access. I know a guy who’s an ex cop but who gave it up to become an outreach worker for a church to help people in his community, he’s a great guy but is up against it in terms of accessing resources. We defo need a carrot and stick approach. | | | |
| Keir Starmer on 11:33 - Sep 25 with 1541 views | controversial_jack |
| Keir Starmer on 10:48 - Sep 25 by Catullus |
I've been sayin this for a while. Take the profits away from the criminals and put them in the exchequer.
We'd know who all the addicts were and make it easier to help them get treatment. It'd be worth making it a loss leader to put the big dealers out of business.
It'd have to go hand in hand with far more severe sentencing for dealing/supplying and buying from illegal sources though, Carrot and stick working together. |
Completely agree. Control and regulate it and the dealers will have no market. Take a burglar or car thief off the street and crime will drop, take a dealer off and another will take it's place the next say. Whatever the police and judiciary do is a waste of time
Addicts could then get clean uncut drugs and not die of overdoses or other health problems.They could also get help and counselling to deal with any underlying problems that drive them to drugs
The current approach towards drugs is a complete and utter failure. Addicts are not criminals, but victims. Dealers are another matter and need to be put out of business by legalising and control. | | | |
| Keir Starmer on 11:37 - Sep 25 with 1531 views | Sirjohnalot |
| Keir Starmer on 11:15 - Sep 25 by Lohengrin |
Government with the will to act decisively would devastate criminal gangs overnight, John. |
And that’s the problem. We’ve a populist government with the worst Home Sec I’ve ever seen, | | | |
| Keir Starmer on 11:43 - Sep 25 with 1518 views | controversial_jack |
| Keir Starmer on 11:15 - Sep 25 by Lohengrin |
Government with the will to act decisively would devastate criminal gangs overnight, John. |
The tough line has been tried by many countries for decades and has been a complete failure.To prosecute gangs there needs to be good evidence and who is going to testify against these lunatics. Testify against the Cartels and see what happens. they have brought a reign of terror in Mexico. speak out and you end up cut to pieces or burned alive. | | | |
| Keir Starmer on 11:50 - Sep 25 with 1511 views | ThurrockJack92 |
Would not be what gets me to vote Labour, but cannot disagree with the stance.
Really cannot fathom the prohibition side, it has been an abject failure in every country in the world regardless of how heavily enforced. |  | | |
| Keir Starmer on 11:57 - Sep 25 with 1505 views | CountyJim |
How much money does the government make from sales of alcohol and tobacco
Do the same with drugs I personally think it would cut down on crime as well |  | | |
| Keir Starmer on 12:04 - Sep 25 with 1501 views | Lohengrin |
| Keir Starmer on 11:37 - Sep 25 by Sirjohnalot |
And that’s the problem. We’ve a populist government with the worst Home Sec I’ve ever seen, |
In a communist state there exists a state-run media, we have the opposite: a media-run state.
A moment and place in time where the organs of Capital spark panic or dole out soporifics to a chronically undereducated population on the whim of self-interest. | |
| An idea isn't responsible for those who believe in it. |
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| Keir Starmer on 12:17 - Sep 25 with 1471 views | onehunglow |
Bottom line of this is Drugs kill.Fact.
Also fact is people continue to take them for a hit-for undulgence,peer pressure,to ecape life's realities which the the hardest thing of all to face.
Anyone thinking criminals will simply give up their way of life if drugs are legalised is living in lala land. They will simply diversify. Its like when car security systems are improved,criminals move ahead of the game. They are not dumb.Many,if they has a different mindset would have the intelect to get a good degree but Crime is easier and more lucrative. It is a choice.
It is mugs who work for a living -as they see it.
Somehow,we have to wean society off drug taking and why it is still seen as cool. Take away demand and you have no sale.No sale,no profit,no shooting,stabbings and family break up.
So they you have it...
When are we going to be honest with ourselves.
Personally, I am all for brutal sentencing. We have never in modern times had that nor would we in thee laughingly enlightened times.
It's our biggest problem,world wide.It underpins most if not all crime. | |
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| Keir Starmer on 12:32 - Sep 25 with 1461 views | jackrmee |
| Keir Starmer on 12:17 - Sep 25 by onehunglow |
Bottom line of this is Drugs kill.Fact.
Also fact is people continue to take them for a hit-for undulgence,peer pressure,to ecape life's realities which the the hardest thing of all to face.
Anyone thinking criminals will simply give up their way of life if drugs are legalised is living in lala land. They will simply diversify. Its like when car security systems are improved,criminals move ahead of the game. They are not dumb.Many,if they has a different mindset would have the intelect to get a good degree but Crime is easier and more lucrative. It is a choice.
It is mugs who work for a living -as they see it.
Somehow,we have to wean society off drug taking and why it is still seen as cool. Take away demand and you have no sale.No sale,no profit,no shooting,stabbings and family break up.
So they you have it...
When are we going to be honest with ourselves.
Personally, I am all for brutal sentencing. We have never in modern times had that nor would we in thee laughingly enlightened times.
It's our biggest problem,world wide.It underpins most if not all crime. |
There we go then. Simple as that. Take away the demand. Why did we not think of this???!!!
ps. drugs are not the killer. The adulteration of drugs is the killer. | |
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| Keir Starmer on 12:36 - Sep 25 with 1454 views | onehunglow |
| Keir Starmer on 12:32 - Sep 25 by jackrmee |
There we go then. Simple as that. Take away the demand. Why did we not think of this???!!!
ps. drugs are not the killer. The adulteration of drugs is the killer. |
Well,there you go then Champ.
Disagreeing again .
What a chap I am.
You are not worth engaging with ,butt,so I wont be in future,which no doubt will give you damp patches. | |
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| Keir Starmer on 13:07 - Sep 25 with 1432 views | majorraglan |
| Keir Starmer on 11:37 - Sep 25 by Sirjohnalot |
And that’s the problem. We’ve a populist government with the worst Home Sec I’ve ever seen, |
Theresa May wasn’t very good either, treatment of the police, reform of probation and changes to Bail legislation weren’t great, plus a lad of other stuff. The Courts have been butchered. | | | |
| Keir Starmer on 13:17 - Sep 25 with 1427 views | Sirjohnalot |
| Keir Starmer on 12:17 - Sep 25 by onehunglow |
Bottom line of this is Drugs kill.Fact.
Also fact is people continue to take them for a hit-for undulgence,peer pressure,to ecape life's realities which the the hardest thing of all to face.
Anyone thinking criminals will simply give up their way of life if drugs are legalised is living in lala land. They will simply diversify. Its like when car security systems are improved,criminals move ahead of the game. They are not dumb.Many,if they has a different mindset would have the intelect to get a good degree but Crime is easier and more lucrative. It is a choice.
It is mugs who work for a living -as they see it.
Somehow,we have to wean society off drug taking and why it is still seen as cool. Take away demand and you have no sale.No sale,no profit,no shooting,stabbings and family break up.
So they you have it...
When are we going to be honest with ourselves.
Personally, I am all for brutal sentencing. We have never in modern times had that nor would we in thee laughingly enlightened times.
It's our biggest problem,world wide.It underpins most if not all crime. |
The point of legalisation is that it removes desperate people away from criminal gangs, it removes vulnerable children away from being exploited from county lines dealing, it removes people being trafficked to become cannabis gardeners.
If it’s regulated a lot of people who would otherwise buy from dealers for drugs mixed with all sorts of horrible things will know they will be safer, needle exchanges, more likely to turn for help if they know they won’t be criminalised.
It’ll free police time from dealing with low level addicts and enable them to concentrate on the gangs.
Car alarms cannot be compared, as the car remains there to be stolen, here their supply market is fatally weakened.
It’ll be impossible to remove the demand, people always have and always will take drugs, chase a high etc. This way, it’s brought under some form of control.
We do have lengthy sentences, in the States, they’ve life sentences for this, but they’ve still a huge drug problem. That’s an easy out which Patel keeps postering all the time. That is not the answer. | | | |
| Keir Starmer on 13:35 - Sep 25 with 1407 views | Gwyn737 |
| Keir Starmer on 13:17 - Sep 25 by Sirjohnalot |
The point of legalisation is that it removes desperate people away from criminal gangs, it removes vulnerable children away from being exploited from county lines dealing, it removes people being trafficked to become cannabis gardeners.
If it’s regulated a lot of people who would otherwise buy from dealers for drugs mixed with all sorts of horrible things will know they will be safer, needle exchanges, more likely to turn for help if they know they won’t be criminalised.
It’ll free police time from dealing with low level addicts and enable them to concentrate on the gangs.
Car alarms cannot be compared, as the car remains there to be stolen, here their supply market is fatally weakened.
It’ll be impossible to remove the demand, people always have and always will take drugs, chase a high etc. This way, it’s brought under some form of control.
We do have lengthy sentences, in the States, they’ve life sentences for this, but they’ve still a huge drug problem. That’s an easy out which Patel keeps postering all the time. That is not the answer. |
Completely agree.
I also think to some extent we’re criminalising the wrong people.
Think of the kid our young adult who gets caught the first time they have something on them they shouldn’t. The punishment isn’t just the fine or jail time of whatever it is. It’s the associated record.
That young person will be denied the chance to work in numerous sectors and could end up doing nothing at all and spiralling into being a drain on society.
Ironically, it’ll be the same people calling for heavier sentences going red in the face about the spongers those sentences formed. | | | |
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