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Linford Christie Stadium. on 20:28 - Nov 10 by LazyFan
This.
Q: How does a Rugby club get a 30K stadium for the price of 15k one? A: Share the cost and location with a Football Club.
Q: However small issue, this has been done before and did not go well. What to do? A: Start a propaganda campaign that you will take it for yourself, shock the fans of both and then work with Football Club to come to an agreement as if its a best for all parties deal, even though that was your intention from the start.
Signed Mr Cynical.
We have experience of sharing with a rugby club - Wasps. Didn't the rugby mess up the pitch?
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Linford Christie Stadium. on 10:14 - Nov 11 with 4116 views
Linford Christie Stadium. on 03:32 - Nov 11 by nadera78
London Scottish moving to the Scrubs makes no sense whatsoever. They're largely an amateur RU club, with a part-time squad of players at senior level, playing in the second tier in front of a couple of hundred people. What on earth would they need a 15,000 seat stadium for?
They tried going full-time when rugby union players started paying tax back in the mid-90s and very quickly went bust. They want to try it again - and in an area where they'd be sandwiched between Harlequins, London Irish and Saracens? Seriously, just how much interest do they think there is in their sport? And then you've got QPR, Fulham, Brentford, Che####, and Middlesex CCC in the immediate vicinity as well.
As ideas go, it's one of the stupidest I've heard in a long time.
They went bust again more recently because they had a moneybags Saudi backer who turned out to be a conman. I used to coach a girls team at the amateur club - they are a lovely club, but very much in the shadow of Richmond and London Welsh, who also bombed as top-flight professional teams in spectacular style, and had to start again from the bottom. The "Irish" label seems to have more drawing power, but I can't see a club with the Scottish identity winning over casual fans.
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Linford Christie Stadium. on 10:20 - Nov 11 with 4095 views
Linford Christie Stadium. on 03:32 - Nov 11 by nadera78
London Scottish moving to the Scrubs makes no sense whatsoever. They're largely an amateur RU club, with a part-time squad of players at senior level, playing in the second tier in front of a couple of hundred people. What on earth would they need a 15,000 seat stadium for?
They tried going full-time when rugby union players started paying tax back in the mid-90s and very quickly went bust. They want to try it again - and in an area where they'd be sandwiched between Harlequins, London Irish and Saracens? Seriously, just how much interest do they think there is in their sport? And then you've got QPR, Fulham, Brentford, Che####, and Middlesex CCC in the immediate vicinity as well.
As ideas go, it's one of the stupidest I've heard in a long time.
There is a long history of Rugby clubs getting a sugar daddy/benefactor - they shoot up the leagues then at some point lose the said benefactor and then hurtle downwards. It is worse than football for that.
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Linford Christie Stadium. on 10:28 - Nov 11 with 4063 views
Linford Christie Stadium. on 10:20 - Nov 11 by Phildo
There is a long history of Rugby clubs getting a sugar daddy/benefactor - they shoot up the leagues then at some point lose the said benefactor and then hurtle downwards. It is worse than football for that.
London Welsh was a disaster. They got themselves promoted on a benefactor's money and couldn't play at home, because they had one stand that seated about 300 people. They played in Oxford for a while and ended up in Witney I think, in front of a few away fans and the press. The professional club folded and the amateur side would have lost their home because of the debts if they hadn't won in court. It's not just the amateur players, they had hundreds of kids there on a Sunday and a pre-school playgroup running out of their clubhouse. Fortunately they are getting back on their feet again now.
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Linford Christie Stadium. on 10:35 - Nov 11 with 4036 views
Linford Christie Stadium. on 22:24 - Nov 10 by derbyhoop
Any replacement for Loftus Road should be flexible in terms of capacity. Nearly all new stadia see increased attendances. At least, in the short term. So, a stadium of 25,000 capacity would be about right for where we are today. However, have we given up on ambition. There is a massive catchment area, if the Rs are successful. And, a return to the PL would leave a 25K capacity stadium undersized.
Is it really a massive catchment area?
When we were finishing top of the old first division, (on the last Saturday of the season), our average home attendance was 23,850 (wiki, other sites may have different figures). This was in an era when there were, arguably, a lot less distractions and reasons for staying at home and football was considerably cheaper to attend. It was also a time when a lot more of our fans lived in, around and closer to Loftus Road.
On our recent premier league seasons we averaged about 17500.
I would suggest that interest in the club has waned gradually over time as fans have moved further away and the cost of attending is prohibitive for many who either attend occasionally of not at all. The age profile of our remaining supporters continues to increase. It is believed that not enough new younger fans are attending to replace those that have moved on. We are also in an era of armchair, fridge and snacks folks who prefer to spend their hard earned on Sky, BT Sport, beer, fast food deliveries and central heating.
I would also suggest that covid will have an impact on people attending in the future. I have no idea how many but I strongly feel that some will never return as they have lost the habit of travelling and attending, have aged and may have developed fears about safety in crowds etc.
I would be very surprised if our need was more than 20000 and that we will find it almost impossible to facilitate the planning regulations and objections of local residents to achieve anything in excess of that.
2
Linford Christie Stadium. on 10:53 - Nov 11 with 3989 views
Linford Christie Stadium. on 10:01 - Nov 11 by kernowhoop
We have experience of sharing with a rugby club - Wasps. Didn't the rugby mess up the pitch?
I think that's overstated. I used to go to London Irish a lot and Reading fans were always complaining about the pitch, yet the parts of it that got messed up were the centre circle and the goal mouths. Hardly rugby's fault.
I saw one fan write "they're ruining the goal mouth diving for tries" - fella, you have not seen London Irish play
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Linford Christie Stadium. on 11:00 - Nov 11 with 3978 views
Linford Christie Stadium. on 19:24 - Nov 10 by Gloucs_R
30k for a championship rugby team.... 🤪 Irish were only getting 5k at Reading.
A big issue there was that Irish's support base has always been in London and they never really picked up new fans in the area. I used to go when I was a student, had less on. But the train, the bus to the stadium, all adds up and it's long man.
I'd probably have gone to see them at Brentford if they hadn't singed Paddy Jackson though
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Linford Christie Stadium. on 13:46 - Nov 11 with 3736 views
Linford Christie Stadium. on 10:35 - Nov 11 by francisbowles
Is it really a massive catchment area?
When we were finishing top of the old first division, (on the last Saturday of the season), our average home attendance was 23,850 (wiki, other sites may have different figures). This was in an era when there were, arguably, a lot less distractions and reasons for staying at home and football was considerably cheaper to attend. It was also a time when a lot more of our fans lived in, around and closer to Loftus Road.
On our recent premier league seasons we averaged about 17500.
I would suggest that interest in the club has waned gradually over time as fans have moved further away and the cost of attending is prohibitive for many who either attend occasionally of not at all. The age profile of our remaining supporters continues to increase. It is believed that not enough new younger fans are attending to replace those that have moved on. We are also in an era of armchair, fridge and snacks folks who prefer to spend their hard earned on Sky, BT Sport, beer, fast food deliveries and central heating.
I would also suggest that covid will have an impact on people attending in the future. I have no idea how many but I strongly feel that some will never return as they have lost the habit of travelling and attending, have aged and may have developed fears about safety in crowds etc.
I would be very surprised if our need was more than 20000 and that we will find it almost impossible to facilitate the planning regulations and objections of local residents to achieve anything in excess of that.
I like to remain positive that something will happen, but your summing up of the situation is pretty much how I see it. Ageing support base, fans living further away, ticket costs and in the glory days average home attendances were as you decscribe, then a stadium of around 20,000 to 22,000 should be sufficient, no more than 25,000 at most. Again remain positive but it is going to be a long haul.
Linford Christie Stadium. on 10:35 - Nov 11 by francisbowles
Is it really a massive catchment area?
When we were finishing top of the old first division, (on the last Saturday of the season), our average home attendance was 23,850 (wiki, other sites may have different figures). This was in an era when there were, arguably, a lot less distractions and reasons for staying at home and football was considerably cheaper to attend. It was also a time when a lot more of our fans lived in, around and closer to Loftus Road.
On our recent premier league seasons we averaged about 17500.
I would suggest that interest in the club has waned gradually over time as fans have moved further away and the cost of attending is prohibitive for many who either attend occasionally of not at all. The age profile of our remaining supporters continues to increase. It is believed that not enough new younger fans are attending to replace those that have moved on. We are also in an era of armchair, fridge and snacks folks who prefer to spend their hard earned on Sky, BT Sport, beer, fast food deliveries and central heating.
I would also suggest that covid will have an impact on people attending in the future. I have no idea how many but I strongly feel that some will never return as they have lost the habit of travelling and attending, have aged and may have developed fears about safety in crowds etc.
I would be very surprised if our need was more than 20000 and that we will find it almost impossible to facilitate the planning regulations and objections of local residents to achieve anything in excess of that.
Impossible to disagree with.
I’d only add that our consistent ’QPRness’ can only exacerbate the waning process due to the high level of fatigue caused by years of support.
Which then begs the question: is there any point of moving?
'Always In Motion' by John Honney available on amazon.co.uk
Nous sommes L’occitane Rs!
I’d only add that our consistent ’QPRness’ can only exacerbate the waning process due to the high level of fatigue caused by years of support.
Which then begs the question: is there any point of moving?
100% yes.
LR is too small not just attendance wise but for the average adult human to watch football in. Queues in the concourse, lucky to get served at half time, inadequate corporate facilities (a real money spinner) and everything is just unfit for purpose. The club is getting left behind.
1
Linford Christie Stadium. on 14:45 - Nov 11 with 3588 views
Linford Christie Stadium. on 10:35 - Nov 11 by francisbowles
Is it really a massive catchment area?
When we were finishing top of the old first division, (on the last Saturday of the season), our average home attendance was 23,850 (wiki, other sites may have different figures). This was in an era when there were, arguably, a lot less distractions and reasons for staying at home and football was considerably cheaper to attend. It was also a time when a lot more of our fans lived in, around and closer to Loftus Road.
On our recent premier league seasons we averaged about 17500.
I would suggest that interest in the club has waned gradually over time as fans have moved further away and the cost of attending is prohibitive for many who either attend occasionally of not at all. The age profile of our remaining supporters continues to increase. It is believed that not enough new younger fans are attending to replace those that have moved on. We are also in an era of armchair, fridge and snacks folks who prefer to spend their hard earned on Sky, BT Sport, beer, fast food deliveries and central heating.
I would also suggest that covid will have an impact on people attending in the future. I have no idea how many but I strongly feel that some will never return as they have lost the habit of travelling and attending, have aged and may have developed fears about safety in crowds etc.
I would be very surprised if our need was more than 20000 and that we will find it almost impossible to facilitate the planning regulations and objections of local residents to achieve anything in excess of that.
Towards the end of the 75/76 season the ground was rammed and the gates closed. I would say that for the Arsenal and Leeds games there was close to 35/40,000 crammed into LR with thousands outside. For both those games, I was in SAR and it was over-loaded.
We have always managed to pull big crowds at finals, in the 70's (v Leicester FA Cup - 36,000) and into the 90's - that great night v Arsenal in the FA Cup. In the 90's we done well with a reduced capacity.
LR is not fit for purpose and one huge step would be a better stadium with outstanding facilities. It's a must. Get that right, improve the team post Covid (the footy landscape will change). The supporters are out there.
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Linford Christie Stadium. on 16:06 - Nov 11 with 3443 views
Linford Christie Stadium. on 14:45 - Nov 11 by BostonR
Towards the end of the 75/76 season the ground was rammed and the gates closed. I would say that for the Arsenal and Leeds games there was close to 35/40,000 crammed into LR with thousands outside. For both those games, I was in SAR and it was over-loaded.
We have always managed to pull big crowds at finals, in the 70's (v Leicester FA Cup - 36,000) and into the 90's - that great night v Arsenal in the FA Cup. In the 90's we done well with a reduced capacity.
LR is not fit for purpose and one huge step would be a better stadium with outstanding facilities. It's a must. Get that right, improve the team post Covid (the footy landscape will change). The supporters are out there.
I tried getting in that day also.
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Linford Christie Stadium. on 16:13 - Nov 11 with 3414 views
Would love it if we could move to Linford Christie and built a modern, updated version of Loftus Road, a bit more legroom, no restricted views, but essentially the same layout, about 20k. As long as they don't build one of those ugly bowl style stadiums!!!
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Linford Christie Stadium. on 16:14 - Nov 11 with 3412 views
I’d only add that our consistent ’QPRness’ can only exacerbate the waning process due to the high level of fatigue caused by years of support.
Which then begs the question: is there any point of moving?
Moving isn't about capacity per se as incremental income. Yield per head is probably atrocious. Lord knows I love having a pie at half time but in the paddocks that means missing some of the game I've paid to watch, and lord knows it's worse elsewhere in the ground.
LR also has no real further usage beyond being a stadium, whereas a new place could conference rooms, housing etc
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Linford Christie Stadium. on 16:25 - Nov 11 with 3375 views
Linford Christie Stadium. on 14:45 - Nov 11 by BostonR
Towards the end of the 75/76 season the ground was rammed and the gates closed. I would say that for the Arsenal and Leeds games there was close to 35/40,000 crammed into LR with thousands outside. For both those games, I was in SAR and it was over-loaded.
We have always managed to pull big crowds at finals, in the 70's (v Leicester FA Cup - 36,000) and into the 90's - that great night v Arsenal in the FA Cup. In the 90's we done well with a reduced capacity.
LR is not fit for purpose and one huge step would be a better stadium with outstanding facilities. It's a must. Get that right, improve the team post Covid (the footy landscape will change). The supporters are out there.
All ticket games those, you had to write to the club with a cheque (or postal order!) enclosing a SSAE! I was there, awesome, never experience anything like it again although Oldham was pretty close?
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Linford Christie Stadium. on 16:39 - Nov 11 with 3332 views
Linford Christie Stadium. on 19:04 - Nov 10 by Northernr
I've started walking past this on my way into the Bush during lockdown and I have to say even getting a 15,000 seat stadium on that site, and more importantly getting 15,000 people onto it and out of it once a week, looks like a real challenge to my untrained eye. Mind you, I suppose you'd say the same if Loftus Road was suggested as a location now too.
On this London Scottish thing though, would you not just develop it together? London Irish have moved into Brentford's. Could be a great solution, split some costs, new home for both. Why does it have to be a competitor bid?
This post has been edited by an administrator
My kid's school has sports days at LCS and I've always thought the same re: the site watching him and his acne'd mates heave themselves around the athletics track. Modern stadium architecture/engineering is one among the many things I'm completely unqualified to speak about but when you're actually on that site, the footprint definitely feels... bijou.
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Linford Christie Stadium. on 16:56 - Nov 11 with 3300 views
Are we happy having a running track around the pitch? Need to bear in mind that Harriers live and are training there all week, and even if you took the pitches next to it there's no way you'd be able to keep the athletics and the football separate. There's retractable seating, but on 4 sides would be expensive and potentially problematic over time if it's constantly being moved
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Linford Christie Stadium. on 16:56 - Nov 11 with 3297 views
A mate has just texted me,and he follows Rugby a bit,he says that Ealing Trailfinders rugby club have an agreement with a local football team to groundshare with that local football club,assuming the rugby club get promoted this season. Are they big enough to move in with us,or would they be thinking of a local non league team?
[Post edited 11 Nov 2020 17:07]
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Linford Christie Stadium. on 17:01 - Nov 11 with 3279 views
Linford Christie Stadium. on 16:56 - Nov 11 by stowmarketrange
A mate has just texted me,and he follows Rugby a bit,he says that Ealing Trailfinders rugby club have an agreement with a local football team to groundshare with that local football club,assuming the rugby club get promoted this season. Are they big enough to move in with us,or would they be thinking of a local non league team?
[Post edited 11 Nov 2020 17:07]
So as I understand it cos the rugby Championship isn't happening this year, Saracens are basically promoted straight back, but Ealing can also go up if they pay for it. Their ground isn't up to Prem standard so they'd need to share a la London Welsh to do it
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Linford Christie Stadium. on 17:09 - Nov 11 with 3251 views
Linford Christie Stadium. on 16:56 - Nov 11 by golborne
Are we happy having a running track around the pitch? Need to bear in mind that Harriers live and are training there all week, and even if you took the pitches next to it there's no way you'd be able to keep the athletics and the football separate. There's retractable seating, but on 4 sides would be expensive and potentially problematic over time if it's constantly being moved
I think the plan would be to have the track and football pitch alongside each other with a shared stand in between. Like they have at Headingley for Cricket and Rugby League. So no running track around the pitch.
Linford Christie Stadium. on 10:35 - Nov 11 by francisbowles
Is it really a massive catchment area?
When we were finishing top of the old first division, (on the last Saturday of the season), our average home attendance was 23,850 (wiki, other sites may have different figures). This was in an era when there were, arguably, a lot less distractions and reasons for staying at home and football was considerably cheaper to attend. It was also a time when a lot more of our fans lived in, around and closer to Loftus Road.
On our recent premier league seasons we averaged about 17500.
I would suggest that interest in the club has waned gradually over time as fans have moved further away and the cost of attending is prohibitive for many who either attend occasionally of not at all. The age profile of our remaining supporters continues to increase. It is believed that not enough new younger fans are attending to replace those that have moved on. We are also in an era of armchair, fridge and snacks folks who prefer to spend their hard earned on Sky, BT Sport, beer, fast food deliveries and central heating.
I would also suggest that covid will have an impact on people attending in the future. I have no idea how many but I strongly feel that some will never return as they have lost the habit of travelling and attending, have aged and may have developed fears about safety in crowds etc.
I would be very surprised if our need was more than 20000 and that we will find it almost impossible to facilitate the planning regulations and objections of local residents to achieve anything in excess of that.
As an outsider who's been going to various London grounds (i.e. not solely Brentford) since 1983, may I venture the opinion that were QPR to build a new ground, it should be a minimum of 25k, and imo 30k+. (That is assuming it was reasonably close to LR, and not some industrial estate out by the M25 or wherever).
People talk about the Glory Days (1970's), when QPR were getting crowds in the mid 20k's etc. And fair enough, in the peak season of 1974/75, when you finished 2nd in the top flight, your average attendance was 23,870.
But what this fails to take into account is that the top attendance anywhere that season was Man U on 54.6k, with Liverpool next on 41.6k. Random others were Man City on 34.2k, Newcatle 32.2k, Spurs 27.8k and Arsenal 26.9k: https://www.worldfootball.net/attendance/eng-premier-league-1975-1976/1/
Crowds are now far higher than at any time since the immediate post-war boom when, frankly, there was sod-all else to do bar the pub or the pictures.
So that now, with PL games everywhere being 95% sold out, any London club could sell 25k seats a game in a new stadium to away fans, tourists, day trippers and ground-hoppers alone, never mind regular home fans - see eg Fulham, currently extending the Cottage.
I mean, even WHU get the guts of 60k a match at the God-awful Stratford Toilet Bowl (even if tickets are at giveaway prices).
Or look at Palace, currently on 25k capacity at Selhurst, but spending a bundle to get it up to 34k - and that's for a team which just avoids relegation in a good season, but gets caught out by it in a bad one.
So if QPR ever did have a choice, imo you'd be mad to settle for anything less than 30k.
3
Linford Christie Stadium. on 17:18 - Nov 11 with 3213 views
Linford Christie Stadium. on 16:56 - Nov 11 by stowmarketrange
A mate has just texted me,and he follows Rugby a bit,he says that Ealing Trailfinders rugby club have an agreement with a local football team to groundshare with that local football club,assuming the rugby club get promoted this season. Are they big enough to move in with us,or would they be thinking of a local non league team?
[Post edited 11 Nov 2020 17:07]
I think you need to have 10,000 capacity to play in the Rugby Union Premiership so Ealing Trailfinders would have to move. I remember hearing talk that they might share with us a couple of years ago when they were close to promotion. Don’t think any non-league grounds in the area would be big enough. Apart from Griffin Park maybe
Linford Christie Stadium. on 17:18 - Nov 11 by CliveWilsonSaid
I think you need to have 10,000 capacity to play in the Rugby Union Premiership so Ealing Trailfinders would have to move. I remember hearing talk that they might share with us a couple of years ago when they were close to promotion. Don’t think any non-league grounds in the area would be big enough. Apart from Griffin Park maybe
No local non-league ground comes close to 10k. I can't see how/why they'd want to go further afield (Watford? Wycombe? Reading?), since they wouldn't cover the rent, even with the crowds they could expect in the Prem.
With Griffin Park going under the bulldozers as we speak, I can't think of any other local(ish) alternative to Loftus Road.
0
Linford Christie Stadium. on 17:31 - Nov 11 with 3175 views
Linford Christie Stadium. on 17:11 - Nov 11 by NewBee
As an outsider who's been going to various London grounds (i.e. not solely Brentford) since 1983, may I venture the opinion that were QPR to build a new ground, it should be a minimum of 25k, and imo 30k+. (That is assuming it was reasonably close to LR, and not some industrial estate out by the M25 or wherever).
People talk about the Glory Days (1970's), when QPR were getting crowds in the mid 20k's etc. And fair enough, in the peak season of 1974/75, when you finished 2nd in the top flight, your average attendance was 23,870.
But what this fails to take into account is that the top attendance anywhere that season was Man U on 54.6k, with Liverpool next on 41.6k. Random others were Man City on 34.2k, Newcatle 32.2k, Spurs 27.8k and Arsenal 26.9k: https://www.worldfootball.net/attendance/eng-premier-league-1975-1976/1/
Crowds are now far higher than at any time since the immediate post-war boom when, frankly, there was sod-all else to do bar the pub or the pictures.
So that now, with PL games everywhere being 95% sold out, any London club could sell 25k seats a game in a new stadium to away fans, tourists, day trippers and ground-hoppers alone, never mind regular home fans - see eg Fulham, currently extending the Cottage.
I mean, even WHU get the guts of 60k a match at the God-awful Stratford Toilet Bowl (even if tickets are at giveaway prices).
Or look at Palace, currently on 25k capacity at Selhurst, but spending a bundle to get it up to 34k - and that's for a team which just avoids relegation in a good season, but gets caught out by it in a bad one.
So if QPR ever did have a choice, imo you'd be mad to settle for anything less than 30k.
I was talking to a hammers fan at my local non league teams game about 6 weeks ago and he said that there is a massive waiting list for season tickets at the London soup bowl.
1
Linford Christie Stadium. on 18:09 - Nov 11 with 3087 views
Linford Christie Stadium. on 10:35 - Nov 11 by francisbowles
Is it really a massive catchment area?
When we were finishing top of the old first division, (on the last Saturday of the season), our average home attendance was 23,850 (wiki, other sites may have different figures). This was in an era when there were, arguably, a lot less distractions and reasons for staying at home and football was considerably cheaper to attend. It was also a time when a lot more of our fans lived in, around and closer to Loftus Road.
On our recent premier league seasons we averaged about 17500.
I would suggest that interest in the club has waned gradually over time as fans have moved further away and the cost of attending is prohibitive for many who either attend occasionally of not at all. The age profile of our remaining supporters continues to increase. It is believed that not enough new younger fans are attending to replace those that have moved on. We are also in an era of armchair, fridge and snacks folks who prefer to spend their hard earned on Sky, BT Sport, beer, fast food deliveries and central heating.
I would also suggest that covid will have an impact on people attending in the future. I have no idea how many but I strongly feel that some will never return as they have lost the habit of travelling and attending, have aged and may have developed fears about safety in crowds etc.
I would be very surprised if our need was more than 20000 and that we will find it almost impossible to facilitate the planning regulations and objections of local residents to achieve anything in excess of that.
Crowds back in the seventies and eighties were nothing to write home about. When I came here back in the eighties we would have nine or ten thousand at top flight games, albeit for the Coventrys and Southamptons of the world. I'd often go to Highbury with my Arsenal mate on other weekends. 20 odd thousand fans were regular occurrences for the lesser lights. It was a game for the working class in those days. I'd like to see a twenty thousand seat stadium with an option to increase. Build it and they will come!!
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