| Is the lock down ending too soon? 04:59 - Jul 1 with 125929 views | Glyn1 |
That's basically it.
Thoughts please. [Post edited 1 Jul 2020 5:00]
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| Is the lock down ending too soon? on 17:35 - Jul 31 with 1362 views | londonlisa2001 |
| Is the lock down ending too soon? on 17:11 - Jul 31 by BillyChong |
Whilst well connected it was arguably easier for the U.K. to contain and defeat this as an island. Instead people we walking through borders with no checks or need to quarantine for months on end. |
It was already here in enough numbers to seed community transmission anyway. Well before we could have shut the borders.
It started before anyone knew. It’s our testing that was the problem as it didn’t spot it.
There’s weird stuff everywhere. Ceredigion, for example, had a strangely high level of deaths from pneumonia over January. And yet low cases since the ‘start’ of the outbreak.
Who knows... |  | | |
| Is the lock down ending too soon? on 17:57 - Jul 31 with 1361 views | majorraglan |
| Is the lock down ending too soon? on 17:35 - Jul 31 by londonlisa2001 |
It was already here in enough numbers to seed community transmission anyway. Well before we could have shut the borders.
It started before anyone knew. It’s our testing that was the problem as it didn’t spot it.
There’s weird stuff everywhere. Ceredigion, for example, had a strangely high level of deaths from pneumonia over January. And yet low cases since the ‘start’ of the outbreak.
Who knows... |
Ceredigion Public Health were doing their own test and trace well before the rest of the country started looking at it, to be fair though they are quite isolated. It will be interesting to see what happens to their stats when they get the influx of visitors from the North West and Midlands.
Going back to WAG v Westminster in previous posts, I don’t think other have covered themselves in glory. | | | |
| Is the lock down ending too soon? on 18:30 - Jul 31 with 1334 views | londonlisa2001 |
| Is the lock down ending too soon? on 17:57 - Jul 31 by majorraglan |
Ceredigion Public Health were doing their own test and trace well before the rest of the country started looking at it, to be fair though they are quite isolated. It will be interesting to see what happens to their stats when they get the influx of visitors from the North West and Midlands.
Going back to WAG v Westminster in previous posts, I don’t think other have covered themselves in glory. |
Yes I know. My point was they had a pneumonia death spike last winter. Local medical people are suggesting either Covid (there are traceable links with people traveling there from China in winter to visit family) or a disease similar enough to have given some community immunity.
Who know how this thing spread and when is my point. We didn’t have widespread testing so we didn’t know. | | | |
| Is the lock down ending too soon? on 20:32 - Jul 31 with 1304 views | Kilkennyjack |
Nicola protecting her hard earned progress. ðŸ´ó §ó ¢ó ³ó £ó ´ó ¿ |  |
| Beware of the Risen People
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| Is the lock down ending too soon? on 20:41 - Jul 31 with 1299 views | Kilkennyjack |
| Is the lock down ending too soon? on 12:30 - Jul 31 by londonlisa2001 |
So your considered response to a spike in cases in the Muslim population of the North West is that it’s caused by the pubs being open?
Thick as mince, fair play.
As at yesterday, btw, Wales has a 7 day average per 100,000 of 7.5 cases. Worse than London, the South East of England, South West of England, north East of England, Scotland and Northern Ireland.
Better than the North West of England, Yorkshire, and the West and East Midlands.
Overall, Wales’ infection rate is 549 and England is 465.
The Johnson government is inept and useless. And Drakeford is doing even worse. And the idiots applaud. |
Be careful.
Andy Burnham said earlier that it was all ages and all communities.
I am sure you know better though. | |
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| Is the lock down ending too soon? on 20:47 - Jul 31 with 1298 views | Catullus |
| Is the lock down ending too soon? on 18:30 - Jul 31 by londonlisa2001 |
Yes I know. My point was they had a pneumonia death spike last winter. Local medical people are suggesting either Covid (there are traceable links with people traveling there from China in winter to visit family) or a disease similar enough to have given some community immunity.
Who know how this thing spread and when is my point. We didn’t have widespread testing so we didn’t know. |
What we do know (from French tests) is that Covid was in Europe before the Chinese told anyone. If it was in France it's practically guaranteed it was spread across Europe by then too.
Surely it was in the UK and several posters on here seemed to think they may have had it around Christmas time though others say it was Aussie flu.
The news today is Bojo has decided not to go ahead with a further easing of lockdown, surely a good decision.
I say Drakers should be telling Wales we should definitely wear masks in indoor public places. | |
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| Is the lock down ending too soon? on 21:09 - Jul 31 with 1290 views | Highjack |
| Is the lock down ending too soon? on 20:41 - Jul 31 by Kilkennyjack |
Be careful.
Andy Burnham said earlier that it was all ages and all communities.
I am sure you know better though. |
Andy burnham is a paragon of virtue. They all say so. |  |
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| Is the lock down ending too soon? on 21:16 - Jul 31 with 1272 views | londonlisa2001 |
| Is the lock down ending too soon? on 20:41 - Jul 31 by Kilkennyjack |
Be careful.
Andy Burnham said earlier that it was all ages and all communities.
I am sure you know better though. |
I’m sure it is. But Oldham, as an example, is seeing 67% of all cases in its Pakistani and Bangladeshi communities despite them accounting for 20% of the population.
And Blackburn is seeing 85% of its cases in the Muslim community despite them accounting for around 25% of the population.
Not sure what the ‘be careful’ bollox is about? It’s not a criticism of the community, it’s a statement of fact. Muslim families often live in extended groups where spreading is easier. Hence the way the ‘lockdown’ has been framed, particularly since it’s Eid. | | | |
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| Is the lock down ending too soon? on 21:20 - Jul 31 with 1281 views | exhmrc1 |
| Is the lock down ending too soon? on 20:47 - Jul 31 by Catullus |
What we do know (from French tests) is that Covid was in Europe before the Chinese told anyone. If it was in France it's practically guaranteed it was spread across Europe by then too.
Surely it was in the UK and several posters on here seemed to think they may have had it around Christmas time though others say it was Aussie flu.
The news today is Bojo has decided not to go ahead with a further easing of lockdown, surely a good decision.
I say Drakers should be telling Wales we should definitely wear masks in indoor public places. |
If we had a lot of new cases I would agree with you but on the current extremely low levels it just isnt necessary. Today there were 26 new cases of which 22 were in the Wrexham or surrounding area. The rest of Wales had 4 cases. 1 each in Angelsey, Gwynedd, Swansea and Torfaen. Yesterday there were 4 cases outside the Wrexham area. 1 each in Swansea, Neath Port Talbot, Cardiff and Powys. These figures are dropping and include the Pillar 1 and Scotia's beloved Pillar 2 cases. Given how the cases have dropped without people using masks I dont see the point of masks. What is far more important is sorting out the problem in and around the Wrexham area. | | | |
| Is the lock down ending too soon? on 21:31 - Jul 31 with 1278 views | Professor |
| Is the lock down ending too soon? on 21:16 - Jul 31 by londonlisa2001 |
I’m sure it is. But Oldham, as an example, is seeing 67% of all cases in its Pakistani and Bangladeshi communities despite them accounting for 20% of the population.
And Blackburn is seeing 85% of its cases in the Muslim community despite them accounting for around 25% of the population.
Not sure what the ‘be careful’ bollox is about? It’s not a criticism of the community, it’s a statement of fact. Muslim families often live in extended groups where spreading is easier. Hence the way the ‘lockdown’ has been framed, particularly since it’s Eid. |
This is the case. Multi generational families., relative poverty and message
Not getting across. In MCR itself they increase is in young,
Relatively affluent people not distancing in bars etc.
It’s not a comment on race or culture just a fact. | | | |
| Is the lock down ending too soon? on 21:55 - Jul 31 with 1271 views | Highjack |
| Is the lock down ending too soon? on 21:16 - Jul 31 by londonlisa2001 |
I’m sure it is. But Oldham, as an example, is seeing 67% of all cases in its Pakistani and Bangladeshi communities despite them accounting for 20% of the population.
And Blackburn is seeing 85% of its cases in the Muslim community despite them accounting for around 25% of the population.
Not sure what the ‘be careful’ bollox is about? It’s not a criticism of the community, it’s a statement of fact. Muslim families often live in extended groups where spreading is easier. Hence the way the ‘lockdown’ has been framed, particularly since it’s Eid. |
Drizzy will be along in a minute to tell us the virus is systemically institutionally racist. | |
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| Is the lock down ending too soon? on 22:41 - Jul 31 with 1258 views | Kilkennyjack |
| Is the lock down ending too soon? on 21:16 - Jul 31 by londonlisa2001 |
I’m sure it is. But Oldham, as an example, is seeing 67% of all cases in its Pakistani and Bangladeshi communities despite them accounting for 20% of the population.
And Blackburn is seeing 85% of its cases in the Muslim community despite them accounting for around 25% of the population.
Not sure what the ‘be careful’ bollox is about? It’s not a criticism of the community, it’s a statement of fact. Muslim families often live in extended groups where spreading is easier. Hence the way the ‘lockdown’ has been framed, particularly since it’s Eid. |
Some MPs are finding another group of people used as ‘them’ is hugely convenient.
One is below.
And remember the Mayor Manchester did not say what you are saying is a fact.
I am just saying people should be careful as some people in the know are not accepting that as a fact.
Most of us simply don't know do we ? | |
| Beware of the Risen People
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| Is the lock down ending too soon? on 22:54 - Jul 31 with 1253 views | Andy1300 |
| Is the lock down ending too soon? on 20:41 - Jul 31 by Kilkennyjack |
Be careful.
Andy Burnham said earlier that it was all ages and all communities.
I am sure you know better though. |
Ok, that world renowned covid expert, Andy Burnham.
That will be right, Why don’t we all do as he says! |  |
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| Is the lock down ending too soon? on 23:00 - Jul 31 with 1241 views | londonlisa2001 |
| Is the lock down ending too soon? on 22:41 - Jul 31 by Kilkennyjack |
Some MPs are finding another group of people used as ‘them’ is hugely convenient.
One is below.
And remember the Mayor Manchester did not say what you are saying is a fact.
I am just saying people should be careful as some people in the know are not accepting that as a fact.
Most of us simply don't know do we ? |
But Andy Burnham did say that the spread was caused by what he termed ‘multi generational households’ mixing. And when they asked him if he was referring to the Asian population he said yes. He also mentioned youngsters in central Manchester as another issue. But they will not be hit as severely by symptoms.
So I have no idea which Mayor you’re talking about. The deputy leader of a Oldham said the same and he’s Muslim.
The point Is not one of blame but of trying to help the communities affected.
And we do know as they’ve issued loads of stats. Track and trace have identified the most vulnerable and the areas where it’s spreading.
They’re doing massive community testing. Over 200,000 tests in the last 24 hours. | | | |
| Is the lock down ending too soon? on 00:16 - Aug 1 with 1226 views | Lohengrin |
| Is the lock down ending too soon? on 21:55 - Jul 31 by Highjack |
Drizzy will be along in a minute to tell us the virus is systemically institutionally racist. |
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| An idea isn't responsible for those who believe in it. |
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| Is the lock down ending too soon? on 10:36 - Aug 1 with 1184 views | A_Fans_Dad |
| Is the lock down ending too soon? on 17:35 - Jul 31 by londonlisa2001 |
It was already here in enough numbers to seed community transmission anyway. Well before we could have shut the borders.
It started before anyone knew. It’s our testing that was the problem as it didn’t spot it.
There’s weird stuff everywhere. Ceredigion, for example, had a strangely high level of deaths from pneumonia over January. And yet low cases since the ‘start’ of the outbreak.
Who knows... |
"It was already here in enough numbers to seed community transmission anyway. Well before we could have shut the borders. "
With an organised prepared government and NHS that was the ideal time to shut the borders, including the Channel tunnel and Ferries.
It would have allowed those prepared people to carry out Test, Track & Trace on the few cases that were already here, like those countries already familiar with pandemics.
But as we know this government and the NHS were totally unprepared and Herd Immunity as quickly as possible was the option they chose, allowing every tom, dick & harry in from anywhere in the world without any kind of proper Quarantine.
Stop making excuses for an absolutley crap system that has got it wrong at every step of the way. | | | |
| Is the lock down ending too soon? on 11:16 - Aug 1 with 1166 views | londonlisa2001 |
| Is the lock down ending too soon? on 10:36 - Aug 1 by A_Fans_Dad |
"It was already here in enough numbers to seed community transmission anyway. Well before we could have shut the borders. "
With an organised prepared government and NHS that was the ideal time to shut the borders, including the Channel tunnel and Ferries.
It would have allowed those prepared people to carry out Test, Track & Trace on the few cases that were already here, like those countries already familiar with pandemics.
But as we know this government and the NHS were totally unprepared and Herd Immunity as quickly as possible was the option they chose, allowing every tom, dick & harry in from anywhere in the world without any kind of proper Quarantine.
Stop making excuses for an absolutley crap system that has got it wrong at every step of the way. |
I’m not making excuses. I specifically said our testing system let us down.
But the reality is that there were not ‘ a few’ cases here. There were hundreds and hundreds. And all the research done post event has shown that the biggest seeding by far was from British people returning from skiing and other holidays at February half term.
I’m assuming you realise the UK couldn’t ‘shut the borders’ to British people returning from holiday? | | | |
| Is the lock down ending too soon? on 12:06 - Aug 1 with 1163 views | A_Fans_Dad |
| Is the lock down ending too soon? on 11:16 - Aug 1 by londonlisa2001 |
I’m not making excuses. I specifically said our testing system let us down.
But the reality is that there were not ‘ a few’ cases here. There were hundreds and hundreds. And all the research done post event has shown that the biggest seeding by far was from British people returning from skiing and other holidays at February half term.
I’m assuming you realise the UK couldn’t ‘shut the borders’ to British people returning from holiday? |
No, you put them in Quarantine, it used to be the tried and tested means of controlling infectious deseases.
Now they tell them to self isolate in their own homes, even if they do so they can still pass it to other members of the household who are not self isolating.
They literally could not run a piss up in a brewery.
You "estimate" hundreds and hundreds and the biggest seeding was done in February. I don't know where the figure of many hundreds comes from, perhaps you can provide it?
South Korea took action on the 4th of February, Singapore banned anyone travelling from China on the 1st of February, Hong Kong took the same action on January the 1st.
Singapore, like the UK has since suffered with many cases amongst migrant workers, so even they underestimated what was needed.
But in those countries they have the cases, but not the deaths | | | |
| Is the lock down ending too soon? on 12:14 - Aug 1 with 1160 views | Catullus |
| Is the lock down ending too soon? on 21:20 - Jul 31 by exhmrc1 |
If we had a lot of new cases I would agree with you but on the current extremely low levels it just isnt necessary. Today there were 26 new cases of which 22 were in the Wrexham or surrounding area. The rest of Wales had 4 cases. 1 each in Angelsey, Gwynedd, Swansea and Torfaen. Yesterday there were 4 cases outside the Wrexham area. 1 each in Swansea, Neath Port Talbot, Cardiff and Powys. These figures are dropping and include the Pillar 1 and Scotia's beloved Pillar 2 cases. Given how the cases have dropped without people using masks I dont see the point of masks. What is far more important is sorting out the problem in and around the Wrexham area. |
On the news yesterday they said UK cases were starting to rise again. A second wave may already be starting here. Why is it wrong to use caution? | |
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| Is the lock down ending too soon? on 12:19 - Aug 1 with 1150 views | londonlisa2001 |
| Is the lock down ending too soon? on 12:06 - Aug 1 by A_Fans_Dad |
No, you put them in Quarantine, it used to be the tried and tested means of controlling infectious deseases.
Now they tell them to self isolate in their own homes, even if they do so they can still pass it to other members of the household who are not self isolating.
They literally could not run a piss up in a brewery.
You "estimate" hundreds and hundreds and the biggest seeding was done in February. I don't know where the figure of many hundreds comes from, perhaps you can provide it?
South Korea took action on the 4th of February, Singapore banned anyone travelling from China on the 1st of February, Hong Kong took the same action on January the 1st.
Singapore, like the UK has since suffered with many cases amongst migrant workers, so even they underestimated what was needed.
But in those countries they have the cases, but not the deaths |
The deaths amongst people of Chinese ethnicity here are also the lowest of any grouping who’ve become infected.
Not sure where you suggest that all these tens of thousands of people quarantined if not at home.
As for the numbers. Look it up. There’s extensive research now in place for how many infections were actually in the country in the early stages of this. It’s many multiples of what was thought at the time. The lack of testing was the problem as we simply didn’t know how widespread it was how early. By the time we did, shutting the borders would have had little effect. Look at the US. They shut borders early - perhaps that’s why they’ve so few cases... | | | |
| Is the lock down ending too soon? on 12:35 - Aug 1 with 1152 views | exhmrc1 |
| Is the lock down ending too soon? on 12:14 - Aug 1 by Catullus |
On the news yesterday they said UK cases were starting to rise again. A second wave may already be starting here. Why is it wrong to use caution? |
It certainly wasn't wrong to use caution and have steadfastly supported Drakeford over that. There is a vast difference in cases in England and the vast majority of Wales and things therefore need to be treated differently. As an example all the deaths recently have occurred in Betsi Cadwalladr Health Board as have most of the new cases and they have largely been in Wrexham and the surrounding counties of Flintshire, Denbighshire and Powys..
The rest of Wales has extremely low numbers of new cases. Just as an example Swansea Bay had 72 cases in one day back in April and has had 3 cases in the last 4 days and other areas in South Wales have been similar. Cardiff and the Vale has had 3, Hywel Dda 3, Cwm Taf 4 Powys 1 and Aneurin Bevan 7 which is largely attributable to the factory in Ebbw Vale. That is 21 cases across most of Wales in 4 days. The figures here are not rising like they are in England.
There is a clear need to sort out the position in North East Wales around Wrexham but these low numbers have been achieved without the use of masks and as long as they remain at those low levels I dont see the need for masks generally. I also believe if you do bring in masks then it needs to be across the board and not just shops as I said previously.
I do have serious concerns that the virus may come back here through people coming across the bridge or having been abroad and this is especially so in North Wales with day trippers or holidaymakers travelling there from heavily infected areas. This is also a worry for people in Cornwall who are reported today to be afraid of going to shops due to the numbers using beaches there. | | | |
| Is the lock down ending too soon? on 12:37 - Aug 1 with 1151 views | Kilkennyjack |
| Is the lock down ending too soon? on 12:19 - Aug 1 by londonlisa2001 |
The deaths amongst people of Chinese ethnicity here are also the lowest of any grouping who’ve become infected.
Not sure where you suggest that all these tens of thousands of people quarantined if not at home.
As for the numbers. Look it up. There’s extensive research now in place for how many infections were actually in the country in the early stages of this. It’s many multiples of what was thought at the time. The lack of testing was the problem as we simply didn’t know how widespread it was how early. By the time we did, shutting the borders would have had little effect. Look at the US. They shut borders early - perhaps that’s why they’ve so few cases... |
Is this the same US who said it was a hoax, and would simply ‘disappear’...?
Not sure that the border control was a single issue with an idiot President. | |
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| Is the lock down ending too soon? on 12:41 - Aug 1 with 1146 views | londonlisa2001 |
| Is the lock down ending too soon? on 12:37 - Aug 1 by Kilkennyjack |
Is this the same US who said it was a hoax, and would simply ‘disappear’...?
Not sure that the border control was a single issue with an idiot President. |
I was being ironic...
Border control really doesn’t work when the virus is seeded to the extent that it can cause community transmission.
When community transmission is controlled, than it can have an effect. But otherwise, if we have 1000 cases we don’t know about, bringing in another 10 doesn’t have an impact. If we have 100 cases and we know where they are, that 10 makes a hell of a difference. | | | |
| Is the lock down ending too soon? on 15:42 - Aug 1 with 1131 views | Kilkennyjack |
A picture paints a thousand words ..ðŸ´ó §ó ¢ó ·ó ¬ó ³ó ¿âœŠðŸ¾ | |
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