| Grimes 20:38 - Jul 25 with 15142 views | GeoffThom |
Off to Fulham |  | | |  |
| Grimes on 15:48 - Jul 26 with 2560 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| Grimes on 15:18 - Jul 26 by ReslovenSwan1 |
Grimes Ayew and Roberts played for Cooper as his best players. It was his job to get them in the frame of mind to sign a new deal at Swansea. Winter would come up with a package and sell these players the managers vision.
Ayew was always going to be a long shot (he said he wanted to play at the highest level possible. - that is Saudi Arabia apparently). One suspects perhaps £15k per week was never going to be enough.
Cooper left because he could not persuade Grimes and Roberts to stay on. Cooper left because he failed to sell them his vision. That does not surprise me at all. Never mind . Maybe they can use the money for Thomas Henry. He is also undervalued. The new man might have exciting targets.
The King is dead long live the King. |
Grimes is leaving because the club need to sell him and he will want to move to a club with realistic ambitions of a Premier League promotion push.
That’s not Swansea, not even if we kept the most successful manager we have had at this level for a long time in Cooper.
I don’t think the most powerful hypnotist in the world would be enough for Grimes to choose Swansea over the likes of Fulham. |  |
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| Grimes on 18:28 - Jul 26 with 2452 views | majorraglan |
| Grimes on 15:18 - Jul 26 by ReslovenSwan1 |
Grimes Ayew and Roberts played for Cooper as his best players. It was his job to get them in the frame of mind to sign a new deal at Swansea. Winter would come up with a package and sell these players the managers vision.
Ayew was always going to be a long shot (he said he wanted to play at the highest level possible. - that is Saudi Arabia apparently). One suspects perhaps £15k per week was never going to be enough.
Cooper left because he could not persuade Grimes and Roberts to stay on. Cooper left because he failed to sell them his vision. That does not surprise me at all. Never mind . Maybe they can use the money for Thomas Henry. He is also undervalued. The new man might have exciting targets.
The King is dead long live the King. |
Players want money and the opportunity to experience success, win medals, trophies and get recognition, if a club can’t offer those then players aren’t likely to be wanting to hang around. Cooper may have tried his best to sell the vision, a significant cut in budget on the horizon, agents whispering in the players ears they can do better elsewhere, players asking questions about quality new signings etc etc Cooper would have a huge ask selling a “vision” or his “dream.”
What evidence is there the club actually want the players to sign new deals? It could be they want to cash in.
Expecting Ayew to stay on for £15k a week is ridiculous, he’s just signed a contract which is reportedly worth £40k per week tax free.
Sadly, I think the club is going to slide and will struggle this season, and a few of the brighter lights will leave. |  | | |
| Grimes on 18:55 - Jul 26 with 2409 views | ReslovenSwan1 |
| Grimes on 15:48 - Jul 26 by Dr_Parnassus |
Grimes is leaving because the club need to sell him and he will want to move to a club with realistic ambitions of a Premier League promotion push.
That’s not Swansea, not even if we kept the most successful manager we have had at this level for a long time in Cooper.
I don’t think the most powerful hypnotist in the world would be enough for Grimes to choose Swansea over the likes of Fulham. |
He must now be treated like Asoro and be told he will not be playing for Swansea next season whatever happens. His time at Swansea has ended so he had better accept something somewhere. |  |
| Wise sage since Toshack era |
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| Grimes on 19:17 - Jul 26 with 2381 views | Oldjack |
| Grimes on 02:43 - Jul 26 by ItchySphincter |
So for years I’ve stood pretty much alone on the value and quality that Matthew Grimes brings to our team.
Now people are upset that he’s leaving? Incoherent. |
I'm not  ,never sticks the boot in or get stuck in,he can't even nut a ball  ,he's very good at sideways and backward passes  and he's definitely not a leader of men |  |
| Prosser the Tosser dwells on Phil's bum hole like a rusty old hemorrhoid ,fact
You Greedy Bastards Get Out Of OUR Club!
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| Grimes on 19:28 - Jul 26 with 2350 views | BillyChong |
| Grimes on 15:18 - Jul 26 by ReslovenSwan1 |
Grimes Ayew and Roberts played for Cooper as his best players. It was his job to get them in the frame of mind to sign a new deal at Swansea. Winter would come up with a package and sell these players the managers vision.
Ayew was always going to be a long shot (he said he wanted to play at the highest level possible. - that is Saudi Arabia apparently). One suspects perhaps £15k per week was never going to be enough.
Cooper left because he could not persuade Grimes and Roberts to stay on. Cooper left because he failed to sell them his vision. That does not surprise me at all. Never mind . Maybe they can use the money for Thomas Henry. He is also undervalued. The new man might have exciting targets.
The King is dead long live the King. |
Never in a million years will that cash go towards Henry. How is Cooper meant to persuade players to stay when he doesn’t hold the purse? | | | |
| Grimes on 22:52 - Jul 26 with 2193 views | NotLoyal |
Let's get rid, cash in. |  |
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| Grimes on 23:02 - Jul 26 with 2181 views | jasper_T |
| Grimes on 19:17 - Jul 26 by Oldjack |
I'm not ,never sticks the boot in or get stuck in,he can't even nut a ball ,he's very good at sideways and backward passes and he's definitely not a leader of men |
I worry for Liam Walsh this season when some fans think Grimes doesn't "get stuck in". Maybe the resemblance to Leon in stature will earn him the benefit of the doubt idk. One of the leading midfield tacklers in the Championship still seen as lightweight by people who claim to have watched him for three years. | | | |
| Grimes on 23:02 - Jul 26 with 2181 views | ReslovenSwan1 |
| Grimes on 22:52 - Jul 26 by NotLoyal |
Let's get rid, cash in. |
Yes sadly he must be told there is no way back at Swansea. Sign a deal at Fulham or spend the rest of 2021 with the u21s. A deal has been struck. | |
| Wise sage since Toshack era |
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| Grimes on 23:13 - Jul 26 with 2169 views | guthrieintherain |
| Grimes on 23:02 - Jul 26 by ReslovenSwan1 |
Yes sadly he must be told there is no way back at Swansea. Sign a deal at Fulham or spend the rest of 2021 with the u21s. A deal has been struck. |
Have I missed something thought it was a cert he was off 4m. | |
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| Grimes on 23:16 - Jul 26 with 2164 views | Badlands |
| Grimes on 20:57 - Jul 25 by onehunglow |
What's the excuses now for such a fire sale.
James,Rodon now this. |
Haven’t missed Rodon, James would never have had tactics that would allow him to thrive, Roberts fell out of favour and for much of the season the continued choice of Grimes to start games was questioned.
Ayew was off and neither Woodman nor Guehi were getting a third loan at the same club.
Cooper's kids were either established or set up elsewhere. The manager ignored many players.
The only player we would miss from this squad is Cabango. |  |
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| Grimes on 23:31 - Jul 26 with 2149 views | KeithHaynes |
| Grimes on 23:13 - Jul 26 by guthrieintherain |
Have I missed something thought it was a cert he was off 4m. |
Wide of the mark and a lot of negotiation to be done yet. |  |
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| Grimes on 23:53 - Jul 26 with 2122 views | jasper_T |
| Grimes on 23:16 - Jul 26 by Badlands |
Haven’t missed Rodon, James would never have had tactics that would allow him to thrive, Roberts fell out of favour and for much of the season the continued choice of Grimes to start games was questioned.
Ayew was off and neither Woodman nor Guehi were getting a third loan at the same club.
Cooper's kids were either established or set up elsewhere. The manager ignored many players.
The only player we would miss from this squad is Cabango. |
Think DJ would have done alright with aimless balls lumped into the channels to chase tbh. | | | |
| Grimes on 00:00 - Jul 27 with 2119 views | ReslovenSwan1 |
| Grimes on 23:13 - Jul 26 by guthrieintherain |
Have I missed something thought it was a cert he was off 4m. |
I read on one of the threads the deal was stalling on Grimes's unreasonable wage demands.
He needs encouragement to lower his demands and sign. The guarantee of no football until after Christmas might convince him to instruct his agent to strike a deal in the absence of any viable alternative.
Swansea will get the fee and save on his wages which they can no longer afford anyway. | |
| Wise sage since Toshack era |
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| Grimes on 09:01 - Jul 27 with 2004 views | Rock |
| Grimes on 22:02 - Jul 25 by magicdaps10 |
Let's relax a little here, we all had an incline that Grimes was going and with 12 months left of his contract, was hardly going to be what we could get for him with an extra year or so on his contract.
We will get a boss in soon and have a whole month for him to recruit what is needed. |
Hit the nail on the head here, Daps, excellent post.
Grimes has performed reasonably well for us the past three seasons and has earned a move if he so chooses. In a vacuum, I would prefer to keep him, but if further incomings are reliant on him moving and there’s a £5m offer on the table it was one we have to take.
Walsh is a top-class footballer, he must prove he can stay healthy, but I believe he has been unlucky and let down at times by the medical treatment he has received. He is more than capable of replacing Grimes’ production on the defensive side, and he is a much better player in attack and in controlling games in the middle.
One of the difficulties in playing Grimes every week is that he isn’t a destroyer type or someone who can truly influence games in possession, so it limits our ability on both ends. He’s a neat and tidy player on the ball, without much dynamism or ability further forward, and doesn’t strike fear into the opposition as our No 6 when they are bearing down on us or looking for a way through. He doesn’t crunch into tackles, is often out of position leading to goals and can’t properly play ‘quarterback’ in possession.
I think he’s a serviceable option for us, but isn’t the guy I’d give the keys to in the middle or have as one of the first names in the XI as an automatic selection every week. If we could get £5m and smartly re-invest a part of that it would be a positive. Based on his track record, and the players brought in this summer, I trust Scott to make the right calls if given the opportunity. |  | | |
| Grimes on 09:17 - Jul 27 with 1975 views | Rock |
| Grimes on 23:02 - Jul 26 by jasper_T |
I worry for Liam Walsh this season when some fans think Grimes doesn't "get stuck in". Maybe the resemblance to Leon in stature will earn him the benefit of the doubt idk. One of the leading midfield tacklers in the Championship still seen as lightweight by people who claim to have watched him for three years. |
Can’t agree here, Jasper.
Walsh’s defensive numbers at Coventry are actually on par with Grimes’, albeit at a division below. Walsh was 21 years old, with excellent pedigree, so to excel in League One translates very well to him having similar success, if not better, as he climbs the pyramid. His skills on the ball and intelligence are attributes that typically shine more and more as you get closer to the PL, and I believe we have a potential star on our hands that we got on the cheap. Extremely fortunate to do so, and I think we’ll see that this season.
Walsh was also playing for a side that dominated possession and played attacking football, as opposed to Grimes who has been playing in a defensive setup for the last two years. That generally inflates players’ defensive numbers as they have more chances to accumulate them.
Analytics are a great indicator of pure production and to provide a basis for style of play, but the eye test is always the final and true barometer for whether a player has it or doesn’t. Grimes is a good shield when he’s in the right position, which is more often than not, but it can be quite easy to do that in the right system. Walsh is a different animal on the attacking end, silky skills and the technique to match. Grimes rarely ventured forward and has been extremely unconvincing when doing so. He’s a very limited footballer, but he does have his strengths that he can be counted on to carry out. He has done a good job for us the past three seasons, he’s never injured and has great stamina, and I think he’s got good character and is someone I’d keep if given the choice.
But Grimes is not a combative or tenacious defender, qualities Walsh possesses and displays frequently. Grimes is often slow to get back and break up play or out of position on many a goal we have given up. As our main pivot man, that’s mostly his remit and while adequate, he is not an unimpeachable figure on that end. Fulton is actually the pit bull of our squad, and with the right manager that can be used to our advantage a lot more than it has been.
Here are the stats (per 90 minutes):
Walsh - 2.0 tackles / 52.1% true tackle rate / 1.6 interceptions / 1.4 clearances / 1.0 blocks
Grimes - 2.1 tackles / 48.0% true tackle rate / 1.5 interceptions / 1.4 clearances / 1.3 blocks
Fulton - 3.5 tackles / 55.9% true tackle rate / 1.5 interceptions / 1.2 clearances / 1.5 blocks | | | |
| Grimes on 09:27 - Jul 27 with 1941 views | Rock |
| Grimes on 14:14 - Jul 26 by MrSwerve |
He'll run up to the contract room at Craven Cottage, stop just short of the contract on the table, turn around, look side to side, throw the pen to someone outside of the room and then run back out. |
I see what you did there, Swerve.
Top marks. | | | |
| Grimes on 10:11 - Jul 27 with 1858 views | jasper_T |
Liam Walsh's stats at Championship level haven't come close to that, and Grimes in previous seasons (including in a Potter side that dominated possession) were better. Strange how "pitbull" Fulton doesn't get marked down as benefiting from the defensive system of Cooper when it's his numbers that have shown the most dramatic improvement from it. With Grimes it "inflates" his output but with Fulton it's just "the right manager using him to our advantage (when he couldn't get into Potter's regular side past George Byers because he didn't look for the ball enough and was too slow for the pace of our game - improved his fitness since then though).
A lot of fans fail their eye test when it comes to Grimes. | | | |
| Grimes on 11:04 - Jul 27 with 1822 views | Catullus |
| Grimes on 10:11 - Jul 27 by jasper_T |
Liam Walsh's stats at Championship level haven't come close to that, and Grimes in previous seasons (including in a Potter side that dominated possession) were better. Strange how "pitbull" Fulton doesn't get marked down as benefiting from the defensive system of Cooper when it's his numbers that have shown the most dramatic improvement from it. With Grimes it "inflates" his output but with Fulton it's just "the right manager using him to our advantage (when he couldn't get into Potter's regular side past George Byers because he didn't look for the ball enough and was too slow for the pace of our game - improved his fitness since then though).
A lot of fans fail their eye test when it comes to Grimes. |
I'm not really a Grimes critic but I'm not his biggest fan either. I'd prefer to keep him here and see what he can do with Walsh and Fulton alongside but Jasper, is it possible you over rate Grimes?
It's entirely possible too that Grimes is a better player than many think and under a different manager with a different playing style, Grimes will do much better.
I think Reslovens attitude to try and encourage him to drop wage demands is a bit silly. If we started doing things like that what will players we want to sign think? If Grimes (or his agent) are asking for a big pay rise then the bloke needs to think again if Fulham are refusing. If he gets any pay rise maybe he should count himself lucky, the way things are right now. That's if it's the actual reason!
Peopleworrying about investment in the team, maybe look around. Apart from the relegated clubs with parachute payments, who is spending? The WOL said we were broke but comparing us to our nearest neighbour, we've spent, it may only be a couple of million but has that "big" team up the road spent anything yet? Who else in the Championship has actually spent anything? I haven't looked so I'm shrouded in ignorance but I don't think many teams will spend very much.
The teams relegated from the EPL will never have a better chance of all going straight back up, in my opinion, because everyone outside that financial bubble is struggling. We are not struggling as much as quite a few of them but we are not rolling in cash either. | |
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| Grimes on 11:11 - Jul 27 with 1797 views | pencoedjack |
| Grimes on 11:04 - Jul 27 by Catullus |
I'm not really a Grimes critic but I'm not his biggest fan either. I'd prefer to keep him here and see what he can do with Walsh and Fulton alongside but Jasper, is it possible you over rate Grimes?
It's entirely possible too that Grimes is a better player than many think and under a different manager with a different playing style, Grimes will do much better.
I think Reslovens attitude to try and encourage him to drop wage demands is a bit silly. If we started doing things like that what will players we want to sign think? If Grimes (or his agent) are asking for a big pay rise then the bloke needs to think again if Fulham are refusing. If he gets any pay rise maybe he should count himself lucky, the way things are right now. That's if it's the actual reason!
Peopleworrying about investment in the team, maybe look around. Apart from the relegated clubs with parachute payments, who is spending? The WOL said we were broke but comparing us to our nearest neighbour, we've spent, it may only be a couple of million but has that "big" team up the road spent anything yet? Who else in the Championship has actually spent anything? I haven't looked so I'm shrouded in ignorance but I don't think many teams will spend very much.
The teams relegated from the EPL will never have a better chance of all going straight back up, in my opinion, because everyone outside that financial bubble is struggling. We are not struggling as much as quite a few of them but we are not rolling in cash either. |
https://www.sportsmole.co.uk/football/fulham/transfer-talk/feature/championship-
2nd highest spenders in the championship. [Post edited 27 Jul 2021 11:48]
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| Grimes on 11:13 - Jul 27 with 1794 views | Rock |
| Grimes on 10:11 - Jul 27 by jasper_T |
Liam Walsh's stats at Championship level haven't come close to that, and Grimes in previous seasons (including in a Potter side that dominated possession) were better. Strange how "pitbull" Fulton doesn't get marked down as benefiting from the defensive system of Cooper when it's his numbers that have shown the most dramatic improvement from it. With Grimes it "inflates" his output but with Fulton it's just "the right manager using him to our advantage (when he couldn't get into Potter's regular side past George Byers because he didn't look for the ball enough and was too slow for the pace of our game - improved his fitness since then though).
A lot of fans fail their eye test when it comes to Grimes. |
Walsh hasn’t had a proper runout in the Championship, and there are several extenuating circumstances for that. Namely, Bristol City has had a terrible history with injuries recently, with several players reported to have had tension with the medical staff over the treatment they have received with the club. Their head physio left the club this summer as a result. Walsh has also played for a few managers with defensive systems who have preferred other, less creative players in their midfield and rumours are he was benched for much of last season because he wouldn’t sign a new contract.
The manager who signed him, Lee Johnson, lost his job right after Walsh’s excellent season with Coventry. Grimes was Walsh’s age now and in a similar position coming back to Swansea, where he was lucky he had an excellent manager in Potter who wanted to play positive football. I hope we sign a manager who will similarly give Walsh the opportunity to show his skills, and I am sure he will excel if given the chance. Simply put, he hasn’t gotten that yet, and he definitely will this season with us. Let’s see what happens. I’m a believer, obviously you’re not.
I didn’t say Fulton didn’t benefit from defensive tactics, he clearly did, and I didn’t just say Grimes’ stats were inflated. I said players in general, and I meant players in general. That encompasses all players playing within defensive systems.
The point remains that Fulton and Grimes are teammates, playing together, and Fulton’s defensive data is some ways better than Grimes’. The numbers are very clear on that. Fulton is limited in many ways, but he is elite at breaking up play and doing the dirty work. That is a very useful skill to have in the Championship, and the right manager could use that to our benefit in better ways than Cooper did, which is what I said in my post. I think you were confused because it seems you got my words mixed up.
I don’t know if I failed the eye test or not, nor do I care, but I know what I see. If you see differently, that’s fine. Football will always be subjective, and one man’s trash is another man’s treasure. It seems Grimes is probably off, so we will likely get a chance to see Walsh take his place. | | | |
| Grimes on 11:39 - Jul 27 with 1721 views | Rock |
| Grimes on 10:11 - Jul 27 by jasper_T |
Liam Walsh's stats at Championship level haven't come close to that, and Grimes in previous seasons (including in a Potter side that dominated possession) were better. Strange how "pitbull" Fulton doesn't get marked down as benefiting from the defensive system of Cooper when it's his numbers that have shown the most dramatic improvement from it. With Grimes it "inflates" his output but with Fulton it's just "the right manager using him to our advantage (when he couldn't get into Potter's regular side past George Byers because he didn't look for the ball enough and was too slow for the pace of our game - improved his fitness since then though).
A lot of fans fail their eye test when it comes to Grimes. |
On second thought, after crunching the data Walsh’s stats are pretty much the same at Championship level as in League One, albeit from just under 1,000 minutes on the pitch, which is a decent enough amount to gather ideas but not enough to ensure they are foolproof.
Either way, they have definitely “come close” and in some aspects are actually better. A little too eager to get stuck in lowers his true tackle rate, but tactical fouls can be acceptable in the right situations. Again, he just turned 23 so his peak is still some ways off. I’m hoping we are witness to that. The stats:
Walsh’s defensive stats (all per 90 min)
Championship - 2.2 tackles / 41.8 true tackle rate / 1.3 interceptions / 1.0 clearances / 1.4 blocks
League One - 2.0 tackles / 52.1% true tackle rate / 1.6 interceptions / 1.4 clearances / 1.0 blocks | | | |
| Grimes on 11:40 - Jul 27 with 1719 views | vetchonian |
| Grimes on 10:11 - Jul 27 by jasper_T |
Liam Walsh's stats at Championship level haven't come close to that, and Grimes in previous seasons (including in a Potter side that dominated possession) were better. Strange how "pitbull" Fulton doesn't get marked down as benefiting from the defensive system of Cooper when it's his numbers that have shown the most dramatic improvement from it. With Grimes it "inflates" his output but with Fulton it's just "the right manager using him to our advantage (when he couldn't get into Potter's regular side past George Byers because he didn't look for the ball enough and was too slow for the pace of our game - improved his fitness since then though).
A lot of fans fail their eye test when it comes to Grimes. |
Potter used Fulton quite alot Jasper, mostly as a sub usually coming on at half time...his first use as such was in the game against Blackburn ay home in October 2018 when the team hardly touched the ball first half and were booed off Fulton and Fer came on at half time for Olsen and Carrol and the game changed.
Fulton aslo featured regularly in Potters sides I admit mostly as a sub coming on at half time...but he started lots of times also.
Under Cooper he was often seen to be found in or around the oppostions box supporting the frontline | |
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| Grimes on 12:17 - Jul 27 with 1668 views | jasper_T |
A concern will be that Walsh's poor injury record did not begin at Bristol City, he had issues as an Everton player as well. It's not a given that their staff were to blame. | | | |
| Grimes on 17:20 - Jul 27 with 1512 views | GVJack |
Not the worst player I've seen in a swans shirt, certainly not the best either. With the squad we have (lacking quality) it's a shame to see him go but I won't losse any sleep on it. Actually think 5mil is a fair price. Good luck MG, thank you for your service. | | | |
| Grimes on 19:12 - Jul 27 with 1399 views | KeithHaynes |
Still no news on this other than there is no news. | |
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