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Do you still trust the process and have faith in Russell’s system or has that faith disappeared. Interesting discussion on the match day thread so this is the overspill.
I’d like to gauge where the views sit after experiencing a whole season of it.
Do you still have faith in Russell Martin’s system?
[Post edited 7 May 2022 15:28]
Swansea Independent Poster of the Year 2021 and 2022.
Do you still have faith in Russell Martin’s system? on 06:51 - May 8 by guthrieintherain
Clement over Martin for me.
We were looking certs for relegation when he joined and kept us up. Yes he was not great but better than Martin.
Clement lost his two game changer Llorente and Sigurdson and got some poor signings in their place, One suspects a Martinez, Laudrup or Rodgers would have blocked or objected to Bony Clucas Mesa and come up with better options.
Swsnses managers generally did well when recruitment was on point. Average signings were good enough Shelvey, Ki, Gomis but Borja, Bony, Mesa Clucas and Sanches all in one short period was too much for any manager.
Make that 11. When it works ( as seen v Cardiff both games, large part of Bournemouth home, WBA home, Coventry away and home, Reading away first hour or so ) it is exciting and good to watch. Consistency and flexibility will be needed, but with the right players it will work. Whether we get the right ones is another matter. Defence certainly needs a lot of work
"Sanity and happiness are an impossible combination" - Mark Twain
Do you still have faith in Russell Martin’s system? on 07:09 - May 11 by STID2017
Make that 11. When it works ( as seen v Cardiff both games, large part of Bournemouth home, WBA home, Coventry away and home, Reading away first hour or so ) it is exciting and good to watch. Consistency and flexibility will be needed, but with the right players it will work. Whether we get the right ones is another matter. Defence certainly needs a lot of work
Some of those games you have listed there weren't the Martinball system though.
Bournemouth home for example we had 47% possession and 395 passes, 72 of them long, almost 20%.
It was the most anti-Martinball game we have seen to date.
You are talking about 6-8 games in 46, mainly against the rubbish sides. That suggests a broken system, not an inconsistent one.
Swansea Independent Poster of the Year 2021 and 2022.
Do you still have faith in Russell Martin’s system? on 07:16 - May 11 by Dr_Parnassus
Some of those games you have listed there weren't the Martinball system though.
Bournemouth home for example we had 47% possession and 395 passes, 72 of them long, almost 20%.
It was the most anti-Martinball game we have seen to date.
You are talking about 6-8 games in 46, mainly against the rubbish sides. That suggests a broken system, not an inconsistent one.
I have faith in the system, but we have to be quicker and more dynamic going forward, tighter in defence and less possession and tipi taping for the sake of it. A lot will depend on getting the players capable of playing that style. Regardless of the opposition, we have to enforce our own game on them. Will be an interesting few months for sure
"Sanity and happiness are an impossible combination" - Mark Twain
Do you still have faith in Russell Martin’s system? on 07:32 - May 11 by STID2017
I have faith in the system, but we have to be quicker and more dynamic going forward, tighter in defence and less possession and tipi taping for the sake of it. A lot will depend on getting the players capable of playing that style. Regardless of the opposition, we have to enforce our own game on them. Will be an interesting few months for sure
Isnt the risky and endless tippy tappy at the back the system though?
For example, this goal kick routine. That is to to emphasise it as opposed to do away with it.
Swansea Independent Poster of the Year 2021 and 2022.
Do you still have faith in Russell Martin’s system? on 08:02 - May 11 by Dr_Parnassus
Isnt the risky and endless tippy tappy at the back the system though?
For example, this goal kick routine. That is to to emphasise it as opposed to do away with it.
Playing out from the back quickly through the team is what we are looking for. Fisher ( and the previous keepers ) and the defence and midfield have for the most part been too slow to see the forward options. Playing triangles, but with the forethought of Martinez and Rodgers teams is for me the way forward. It should be the way we try to play, but there has to be flexibility there to change when necessary
"Sanity and happiness are an impossible combination" - Mark Twain
Do you still have faith in Russell Martin’s system? on 08:30 - May 11 by STID2017
Playing out from the back quickly through the team is what we are looking for. Fisher ( and the previous keepers ) and the defence and midfield have for the most part been too slow to see the forward options. Playing triangles, but with the forethought of Martinez and Rodgers teams is for me the way forward. It should be the way we try to play, but there has to be flexibility there to change when necessary
Playing out quickly means our possession stats go down, that's absolutely not what Russell wants, if it was then we would have done it by now. Including cup games we are 50+ games in now.
I agree regarding triangles and I agree regarding moving the ball forward quickly (ideally with pace and width) - unfortunately that is not Russell's system.
Swansea Independent Poster of the Year 2021 and 2022.
Do you still have faith in Russell Martin’s system? on 08:30 - May 11 by STID2017
Playing out from the back quickly through the team is what we are looking for. Fisher ( and the previous keepers ) and the defence and midfield have for the most part been too slow to see the forward options. Playing triangles, but with the forethought of Martinez and Rodgers teams is for me the way forward. It should be the way we try to play, but there has to be flexibility there to change when necessary
I actually agree with that which begs the question as to why after 8 months we were still doing it
Do you still have faith in Russell Martin’s system? on 09:19 - May 11 by Dr_Parnassus
Playing out quickly means our possession stats go down, that's absolutely not what Russell wants, if it was then we would have done it by now. Including cup games we are 50+ games in now.
I agree regarding triangles and I agree regarding moving the ball forward quickly (ideally with pace and width) - unfortunately that is not Russell's system.
He has written recently about having the right players ? Time will tell
"Sanity and happiness are an impossible combination" - Mark Twain
Do you still have faith in Russell Martin’s system? on 09:19 - May 11 by Dr_Parnassus
Playing out quickly means our possession stats go down, that's absolutely not what Russell wants, if it was then we would have done it by now. Including cup games we are 50+ games in now.
I agree regarding triangles and I agree regarding moving the ball forward quickly (ideally with pace and width) - unfortunately that is not Russell's system.
That's the thing Doc: It's all about brand Martin, for brand Martin. In the main.
Any decent, less self-centered manager would modify/ditch the pedestrian, superfluous sideways - backwards malarkey for the joke it has become. Keep-ball for stats sake. To not inject more pace and go-fwd is plain stupid and disrespectful.
The vast majority of academies (including a fair few non-league clubs) play keep-ball triangles - from back to front and back again: 2 training pitches - 1 for go-fwd keep-ball positioning, and another for go-back keep-ball.
Where it all goes pear-shaped in the British game is at youth level - where the pressure to resort to the power game means the (often smaller) technical players get binned in favour of bigger, less technical brutes. Lower league clubs do this to win games, cos that's what mainly works best at those levels. And winning is the aim at youth level and beyond.
What Martin is doing is looking to play academy football against the big, powerful brutes in men's football - and at Championship level they're bigger, faster, fitter and far more powerful - with better managers (like Cooper) who know how to neuter, counter and destroy academy level football.
Martin needs to grow up and respect the proper fans of our proper club. He needs a more pragmatic, grown up version in our defensive third in particular to get it wider quicker and with far more zip. More power and presence at the back, less possession (c60%), more attacking driving pace. Proper triangles with zip.
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Do you still have faith in Russell Martin’s system? on 10:32 - May 11 with 1026 views
I need the system explained to me. I see the system as unnecessary risk taking which allows the oppo at least 3 chances to score per game. I see the system is playing most players out of their normal positions ( It could be seen as multi tasking I suppose) . I see the system as generally boring with the occasional glimpse of quality. Is it me or is there more to this process that I've failed to spot.
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Do you still have faith in Russell Martin’s system? on 11:41 - May 11 with 971 views
Do you still have faith in Russell Martin’s system? on 10:52 - May 11 by heatwave
I need the system explained to me. I see the system as unnecessary risk taking which allows the oppo at least 3 chances to score per game. I see the system is playing most players out of their normal positions ( It could be seen as multi tasking I suppose) . I see the system as generally boring with the occasional glimpse of quality. Is it me or is there more to this process that I've failed to spot.
In an ideal world it is brilliant. He is trying to get us playing like Man City. Trouble is we do not have enough of the players to do it. Plus, yes playing them out of position is sometimes baffling.
"Sanity and happiness are an impossible combination" - Mark Twain
Do you still have faith in Russell Martin’s system? on 11:41 - May 11 by STID2017
In an ideal world it is brilliant. He is trying to get us playing like Man City. Trouble is we do not have enough of the players to do it. Plus, yes playing them out of position is sometimes baffling.
Man City play a flat back 4 and wingers.... they also don't have their keeper playing as a midfielder.
We play nothing like Man City or Liverpool, not sure why people keep saying that.
Swansea Independent Poster of the Year 2021 and 2022.
Do you still have faith in Russell Martin’s system? on 11:50 - May 11 by Dr_Parnassus
Man City play a flat back 4 and wingers.... they also don't have their keeper playing as a midfielder.
We play nothing like Man City or Liverpool, not sure why people keep saying that.
Think the point is that they will often play from the back, pass in triangles and move forward through the team. Obviously much quicker and more efficiently than we do it. Whether it is the same or a different formation, the ultimate aim is to play fluid, fast, attacking, exciting football from the back to the front involving the goalkeeper when necessary. Achieving that however ...
"Sanity and happiness are an impossible combination" - Mark Twain
Do you still have faith in Russell Martin’s system? on 12:15 - May 11 by STID2017
Think the point is that they will often play from the back, pass in triangles and move forward through the team. Obviously much quicker and more efficiently than we do it. Whether it is the same or a different formation, the ultimate aim is to play fluid, fast, attacking, exciting football from the back to the front involving the goalkeeper when necessary. Achieving that however ...
Playing from the back is something a lot of clubs do, but playing as we do is not something anyone else does.
It’s like saying we play like Man City because they shoot sometimes and so do we.
We don’t play triangles, we don’t move the ball quickly - we do the opposite, quite intentionally. If we had a style like Man City’s I don’t think anyone would complain.
The fact is we set up nothing like Man City, our tactical instructions appear nothing like Man City, our patterns of play are nothing like Man City and we don’t even have championship equivalents of Man City’s players.
We play with no width - intentionally. We don’t have athletic full backs - intentionally. We don’t have monster CB’s - intentionally. We shipped out our wingers - intentionally. We play X2 holding midfielders quite often - intentionally.
There is no use in saying we are trying to play like them but we don’t quite have it down yet. We play nothing like them by instruction.
Only we play like we play, and nobody else does it because it doesn’t work.
Swansea Independent Poster of the Year 2021 and 2022.
Do you still have faith in Russell Martin’s system? on 10:32 - May 11 by Whiterockin
If he doesn't have the right players by September 1st he never will have.
He's very unlikely to get those players and very unlikely at that, needs to learn to play to the strengths of the players he's got and not some fanciful system that is mostly unachievable with the quality of the players already here or any that he wants to come here.
The funds available aren't enough, nowhere near IMHO
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Do you still have faith in Russell Martin’s system? on 16:16 - May 11 with 854 views
Do you still have faith in Russell Martin’s system? on 15:41 - May 11 by max936
He's very unlikely to get those players and very unlikely at that, needs to learn to play to the strengths of the players he's got and not some fanciful system that is mostly unachievable with the quality of the players already here or any that he wants to come here.
The funds available aren't enough, nowhere near IMHO
...which is the whole bluddy point
Our coach ,with the owners we have,simply has to make do and mend. Any utterances to the contrary have to be treated with suspicion.
I reckon Huddersfield,Blades Forst fans,Luton bless their filthy bones,are quite happy with their more direct no no nonsense approach.
I can't recall them giving away goals in the manner we have.
Do you still have faith in Russell Martin’s system? on 13:11 - May 11 by Dr_Parnassus
Playing from the back is something a lot of clubs do, but playing as we do is not something anyone else does.
It’s like saying we play like Man City because they shoot sometimes and so do we.
We don’t play triangles, we don’t move the ball quickly - we do the opposite, quite intentionally. If we had a style like Man City’s I don’t think anyone would complain.
The fact is we set up nothing like Man City, our tactical instructions appear nothing like Man City, our patterns of play are nothing like Man City and we don’t even have championship equivalents of Man City’s players.
We play with no width - intentionally. We don’t have athletic full backs - intentionally. We don’t have monster CB’s - intentionally. We shipped out our wingers - intentionally. We play X2 holding midfielders quite often - intentionally.
There is no use in saying we are trying to play like them but we don’t quite have it down yet. We play nothing like them by instruction.
Only we play like we play, and nobody else does it because it doesn’t work.
Absolutely spot on.
If only the meek 'Yes' brigade could muster something of substance. Clearly nowhere near as cogent a case for the 'No' as yours Doc. But anything will do, else they all look a bit twp, as per.. Not a peep, still.
The 12 sheeple ought to show yourselves (tho, we know who you multis are, so recalibrated to maybe 5 actual sheeple, at best).
Pro free speech and alternative opinions -
Anti gang-bullying and poor modding thereof -
Will always make a stand against those who consistently choose to turn a blind eye
0
Do you still have faith in Russell Martin’s system? on 23:09 - May 11 with 788 views
Russell Marin has reinforced his position. It was reported that Russell Martin was part of the interviewing team for the new Chef scout.
With Allen on his way the club have sacked the man who should have had the clout to "notionally moderate the perceived excesses of Martinball" if you accept that narrative. His assistant manger Luke Williams might have been the last one to try that.
Garrick a fast athletic forward will head the same was as Jamal Lowe a fast athletic forward 7 years of development cast aside at the age of 23 just having had his best season.
As one headline on Swansea s top fan forum put it. Its all in for Martin.
Martinball will run its course. If still struggling for consistency around November the US people will pressurise Winter for action. This will see Leon Britton parachuted in with without Martin's approval. Just in time for Guy Fawkes night. By Christmass KO'L or Mr Davies from the u18 will be calling the shots.
On the other hand Swansea will be top 6 and everyone happy except the resident misery merchants on here.
Do you still have faith in Russell Martin’s system? on 23:09 - May 11 by ReslovenSwan1
Russell Marin has reinforced his position. It was reported that Russell Martin was part of the interviewing team for the new Chef scout.
With Allen on his way the club have sacked the man who should have had the clout to "notionally moderate the perceived excesses of Martinball" if you accept that narrative. His assistant manger Luke Williams might have been the last one to try that.
Garrick a fast athletic forward will head the same was as Jamal Lowe a fast athletic forward 7 years of development cast aside at the age of 23 just having had his best season.
As one headline on Swansea s top fan forum put it. Its all in for Martin.
Martinball will run its course. If still struggling for consistency around November the US people will pressurise Winter for action. This will see Leon Britton parachuted in with without Martin's approval. Just in time for Guy Fawkes night. By Christmass KO'L or Mr Davies from the u18 will be calling the shots.
On the other hand Swansea will be top 6 and everyone happy except the resident misery merchants on here.
as one of those who is labelled as one of those " misery agents on here" I'd be happy with a top 6 finish....we should have finished higher this season with this squad which is why some of us are so vocal
Do you still have faith in Russell Martin’s system? on 05:24 - May 12 by vetchonian
as one of those who is labelled as one of those " misery agents on here" I'd be happy with a top 6 finish....we should have finished higher this season with this squad which is why some of us are so vocal
Indeed, top 6 for me.
What happens in the playoffs is not important to me, getting there and giving us the chance is what we need.
Anything else, especially after writing off a whole season, is poor.
Swansea Independent Poster of the Year 2021 and 2022.
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