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Ironically for Alastair it is well touted that should you give an infinite number of monkeys and infinite number of typewriters they will eventually write the complete works of Shakespeare.
In defence of the ‘easily offended fck wits’ at the very least what Alastair Stewart said was extremely insensitive because of the historical tropes.
Racism is a complicated and veiled thing. It’s rarely the NF marching up and down the high street anymore so harder to call out it’s more grey than that. This means well meaning people will jump at ghosts that arn’t there sometimes.
[Post edited 30 Jan 2020 9:52]
Hilarity of the highest order.
"Well meaning people"
I read that as paranoid, witch hunting, sensationalists who demand the right to be offended at anytime by anything. The vast majority of whom are extreme left and demand to be accepted as they are "so right on"
Load of old bollix and you know it. This latest sensationalist wailing and self flagellation just goes on the pile with the rest of the PC bull that is spouted.
Pulls on jackboots, raises right arm at a 45 degree angle and goose steps off......
Cherish and enjoy life.... this ain't no dress rehearsal
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Alastair Stewart... on 12:37 - Jan 30 with 1463 views
I read that as paranoid, witch hunting, sensationalists who demand the right to be offended at anytime by anything. The vast majority of whom are extreme left and demand to be accepted as they are "so right on"
Load of old bollix and you know it. This latest sensationalist wailing and self flagellation just goes on the pile with the rest of the PC bull that is spouted.
Pulls on jackboots, raises right arm at a 45 degree angle and goose steps off......
Alastair Stewart... on 12:24 - Jan 30 by paulparker
So basically your in agreement that Alistair Stewart shouldn’t of been chastised or made to resign then and that the hysterical reaction to his Shakespeare tweet is a load of bollox
On the face of it yeah, I don’t think Alastair Stewart should have been made to resign although I really don’t know the full context of the situation or the disciplinary codes ITN have. Maggsinho’s post changes a lot of things though doesn’t it?
I also have sympathy with the view that working class white people (like me) are sick of being called racist by middle class commentators who pay their Gambian au pair £7 an hour.
Bullshit like this is a distraction of the real issue, which is classism. And seeing as Black and ethnic minority people on the whole are more likely to be working class as a % and therefore shit upon by society, then I think I can say with some certainty that the systems of the state are racist.
[Post edited 30 Jan 2020 12:44]
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Alastair Stewart... on 12:46 - Jan 30 with 1425 views
At grammar school , I hated English lit when we had to read Shakespeare. We would take a book home to read then have to give our opinion in class. I used to listen to other kids opinions and write them down/copy them. When it came to my turn I would rehash what class mates had said the week / month before. I hated English lit. I preferred reading things like Dr Dolittle.
Very hard to be objective about Shakespeare as there is a Shakespeare industry in Britain.
One of the things that really messes up Shakespeare teaching is that kids are reading plays that were designed to be performed in a lightweight environment with few props where the language had to do all the heaving lifting/scene creation.
People need to get an overview of a play before diving into the details (assuming they are interested). We had a forced march through through 'Antony and Cleopatra' which has so many scenes that everybody got lost in the details. The lack of an overview also means that people know Shakespeare 'highlights' (famous speeches) and the rest of the play is just a filler between the highlights.
Early modern English is also a barrier, although I think this can be overcome if people have an overview of the material (and are interested).
Another difficulty is understanding the conceptions of a different era. Shylock is condemned for making money out of money (i.e. unnatural 'barren' activity as opposed to the 'natural' agricultural economy of the time), a criticism which people have difficulty understanding today as that is the whole basis of capitalist society.
To top it all these plays are then crowbarred into the examination system.
Air hostess clique
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Alastair Stewart... on 13:02 - Jan 30 with 1382 views
On the face of it yeah, I don’t think Alastair Stewart should have been made to resign although I really don’t know the full context of the situation or the disciplinary codes ITN have. Maggsinho’s post changes a lot of things though doesn’t it?
I also have sympathy with the view that working class white people (like me) are sick of being called racist by middle class commentators who pay their Gambian au pair £7 an hour.
Bullshit like this is a distraction of the real issue, which is classism. And seeing as Black and ethnic minority people on the whole are more likely to be working class as a % and therefore shit upon by society, then I think I can say with some certainty that the systems of the state are racist.
[Post edited 30 Jan 2020 12:44]
Ok so in around about way we agree on this subject I do think this Alastair Stewart is a bit of a smarmy git, he has tried to be clever and it’s backfired on him as people want to jump on the bandwagon of the race card We live in a world where everyone has to be punished and lose their jobs for some reason and that’s sad really as the British way has always been quick fire wit and put downs, we are now losing this
Are the systems of the state racist yeah more than likely but then again the same state has let down thousands of white girls as well (grooming gangs) Perhaps it’s a class thing who knows
And Bowles is onside, Swinburne has come rushing out of his goal , what can Bowles do here , onto the left foot no, on to the right foot
That’s there that’s two, and that’s Bowles
Brian Moore
2
Alastair Stewart... on 13:09 - Jan 30 with 1354 views
Alastair Stewart... on 13:02 - Jan 30 by paulparker
Ok so in around about way we agree on this subject I do think this Alastair Stewart is a bit of a smarmy git, he has tried to be clever and it’s backfired on him as people want to jump on the bandwagon of the race card We live in a world where everyone has to be punished and lose their jobs for some reason and that’s sad really as the British way has always been quick fire wit and put downs, we are now losing this
Are the systems of the state racist yeah more than likely but then again the same state has let down thousands of white girls as well (grooming gangs) Perhaps it’s a class thing who knows
Think it's an a$$hole think to be honest. Regardless of race gender class or any other demographic, a$$holes will be a$$holes.
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Alastair Stewart... on 13:20 - Jan 30 with 1314 views
Alastair Stewart... on 12:21 - Jan 30 by Maggsinho
Apparently it wasn't a single tweet that was the problem but a run of tweets so not just the ape comment. From the guy on Twitter plus from the journalist Kate Maltby.
I've admired Alastair Stewart for years, and really enjoyed getting to know him a bit on here.
BUT: I watched the actual exchange in REAL TIME, because I also follow and like his interlocutor. And it was much, much nastier than has been reported. It wasn't just the 'ape' quote.
Alastair Stewart... on 12:46 - Jan 30 by TacticalR
Very hard to be objective about Shakespeare as there is a Shakespeare industry in Britain.
One of the things that really messes up Shakespeare teaching is that kids are reading plays that were designed to be performed in a lightweight environment with few props where the language had to do all the heaving lifting/scene creation.
People need to get an overview of a play before diving into the details (assuming they are interested). We had a forced march through through 'Antony and Cleopatra' which has so many scenes that everybody got lost in the details. The lack of an overview also means that people know Shakespeare 'highlights' (famous speeches) and the rest of the play is just a filler between the highlights.
Early modern English is also a barrier, although I think this can be overcome if people have an overview of the material (and are interested).
Another difficulty is understanding the conceptions of a different era. Shylock is condemned for making money out of money (i.e. unnatural 'barren' activity as opposed to the 'natural' agricultural economy of the time), a criticism which people have difficulty understanding today as that is the whole basis of capitalist society.
To top it all these plays are then crowbarred into the examination system.
Those are all fair points, particularly about the exams, but I don't think there is anything wrong with getting kids to study something so alien from their current experience, that it requires some instruction on how society, morality and lifestyle have changed since then. School gives them that opportunity. Reading Shakespeare requires all those things, as well as exposing kids to the brilliant music of the poetry. In the same way, teaching a kid to play a violin or a recorder, gives them an understanding of harmony and composition, that they can use in any way they like in future, even if they never touch that instrument again.
I'm not a fan of limiting their reading to contemporary texts, or film/TV - they're going to consume that anyway. I know this isn't a popular opinion in education now, but I also don't believe there's anything wrong with building a common grounding of a national culture. It would be completely expected in most of Europe that you are exposed to the national poets.
For myself, Shakespeare's not something I seek out for my own entertainment, but I don't regret studying it. Plus, you never know what will appeal to kids, background doesn't determine all of your tastes and direction of your life. I came from the least musical home possible - my Dad loved Country and Irish! - but my tastes have wandered in some weird directions since. I was listening to a podcast interview with James McMillan, who grew up a Celtic-mad kid in a mining village in Ayrshire to become our greatest living composer. Stravinsky once went into a jazz club in New York to see John Coltrane perform; Coltrane saw him in the audience, and threw a few bars of Stravinsky into his improvisation.
[Post edited 30 Jan 2020 13:30]
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Alastair Stewart... on 15:38 - Jan 30 with 1192 views
Alastair Stewart... on 13:02 - Jan 30 by paulparker
Ok so in around about way we agree on this subject I do think this Alastair Stewart is a bit of a smarmy git, he has tried to be clever and it’s backfired on him as people want to jump on the bandwagon of the race card We live in a world where everyone has to be punished and lose their jobs for some reason and that’s sad really as the British way has always been quick fire wit and put downs, we are now losing this
Are the systems of the state racist yeah more than likely but then again the same state has let down thousands of white girls as well (grooming gangs) Perhaps it’s a class thing who knows
We are nearly there mate 😆
In your opinion, if those girls were white and from Haberdashers Aske School and were the daughters of Barristers, Hedge Fund managers, and MPs do you think the situation would have been ignored for so long and the scum who perpetrated the crime not investigated?
Those white girls who were abused in Rotherham were ignored because they were working class not because they were white.
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Alastair Stewart... on 15:44 - Jan 30 with 1175 views
In your opinion, if those girls were white and from Haberdashers Aske School and were the daughters of Barristers, Hedge Fund managers, and MPs do you think the situation would have been ignored for so long and the scum who perpetrated the crime not investigated?
Those white girls who were abused in Rotherham were ignored because they were working class not because they were white.
Those white girls in Rotherham were ignored because the men abusing them were Muslim.
A Muslim female Labour MP up that way said the girls should keep their mouths shut.
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Alastair Stewart... on 15:49 - Jan 30 with 1156 views
Good grief, the philistinism in this thread! That aside, what the hell is wrong with that quote? It's clearly referencing 'man' - as in all men/humankind - not black people. It's almost as if people are looking to be offended...
In your opinion, if those girls were white and from Haberdashers Aske School and were the daughters of Barristers, Hedge Fund managers, and MPs do you think the situation would have been ignored for so long and the scum who perpetrated the crime not investigated?
Those white girls who were abused in Rotherham were ignored because they were working class not because they were white.
You could be on to something there with the class thing But if it was gangs of white blokes abusing Muslim girls and black girls you know as well as I do it wouldn’t be put down as just a “class thing”
And Bowles is onside, Swinburne has come rushing out of his goal , what can Bowles do here , onto the left foot no, on to the right foot
That’s there that’s two, and that’s Bowles
Brian Moore
1
Alastair Stewart... on 16:00 - Jan 30 with 1131 views
As Carol Vorderman once said 'Shakespeare is as dull as ditch water'. I'd go further and say it's a load of b0ll0cks.
Which just goes to show Carol Vorderman, to paraphrase Julie Burchill on Stephen Fry, is really a stupid person's idea of a clever person. With your 'opinion' worth about as much as Conor Washington.
Those white girls in Rotherham were ignored because the men abusing them were Muslim.
A Muslim female Labour MP up that way said the girls should keep their mouths shut.
I don’t remember any MP saying that, I’ll take your word for it, but if they did they felt secure in saying it because of the hierarchy of those girls.
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Alastair Stewart... on 16:25 - Jan 30 with 1093 views
Alastair Stewart... on 16:00 - Jan 30 by paulparker
You could be on to something there with the class thing But if it was gangs of white blokes abusing Muslim girls and black girls you know as well as I do it wouldn’t be put down as just a “class thing”
You are right it wouldn’t. That’s my point!
When that exact thing happened in Haiti with the Red Cross it was framed as a racial thing when in fact it was essentially Middle Class blokes (who happened to be white) exploiting desperate Haitians who had their country demolished by a Hurricane and exchanged sex for food.
Good grief, the philistinism in this thread! That aside, what the hell is wrong with that quote? It's clearly referencing 'man' - as in all men/humankind - not black people. It's almost as if people are looking to be offended...
How very dare you use a word that I have no idea what it means. Typical Homo Sapien.
When that exact thing happened in Haiti with the Red Cross it was framed as a racial thing when in fact it was essentially Middle Class blokes (who happened to be white) exploiting desperate Haitians who had their country demolished by a Hurricane and exchanged sex for food.
Yeah that’s bad and those kids exploited is terrible a bit like places in the Far East The thing is we don’t have an excuse we are not a 3rd world country to cover up what’s happened here is a disgrace
And Bowles is onside, Swinburne has come rushing out of his goal , what can Bowles do here , onto the left foot no, on to the right foot
That’s there that’s two, and that’s Bowles
Brian Moore
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Alastair Stewart... on 16:51 - Jan 30 with 1041 views
Alastair Stewart... on 16:49 - Jan 30 by paulparker
Yeah that’s bad and those kids exploited is terrible a bit like places in the Far East The thing is we don’t have an excuse we are not a 3rd world country to cover up what’s happened here is a disgrace
Don’t be fooled mate, some of those girls in Rotherham etc were living in ‘3rd world’ conditions.
It wouldn’t needed to have been covered up in the first place if the plod has taken it seriously like they would have with those hypothetical Privately educated schoolgirls.
[Post edited 30 Jan 2020 17:12]
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Alastair Stewart... on 16:59 - Jan 30 with 1022 views
Don’t be fooled mate, some of those girls in Rotherham etc were living in ‘3rd world’ conditions.
It wouldn’t needed to have been covered up in the first place if the plod has taken it seriously like they would have with those hypothetical Privately educated schoolgirls.
[Post edited 30 Jan 2020 17:12]
Yeah a lot if those kids were put in care because their families were scumbags but a lot wasn’t , a lot of those girls are groomed at school , youth clubs, etc Just normal kids like we once were
And Bowles is onside, Swinburne has come rushing out of his goal , what can Bowles do here , onto the left foot no, on to the right foot
That’s there that’s two, and that’s Bowles
Brian Moore
0
Alastair Stewart... on 18:39 - Jan 30 with 928 views
Alastair Stewart... on 17:49 - Jan 30 by paulparker
Yeah a lot if those kids were put in care because their families were scumbags but a lot wasn’t , a lot of those girls are groomed at school , youth clubs, etc Just normal kids like we once were
It also goes back to South Yorkshire police too, who in class warfare terms have form bashing the shit out of striking miners (Orgreave) and causing and covering up the corporate manslaughter of working class scousers at (Hillsborough).
Ironically it was Alistair Stewart who uttered the famous line ‘it’s ghastly’ at Orgreave.
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