Please log in or register. Registered visitors get fewer ads.
Forum index | Previous Thread | Next thread
Have the government failed? 08:00 - Apr 27 with 23956 viewsRiscaJack

Can the more educated posters on this forum give me some opinions on this?

For me it looks like a complete disgrace from the start, no leadership, promises not kept, flights still coming into country from badly hit parts of world, using the excuse of "scientific advice" for not postponing the likes of Cheltenham Festival, Liverpool v Madrid, music gigs. We watched what was happening in Italy, I just can't find any excuses for them.

JENKINS OUT

2
Have the government failed? on 10:31 - May 1 with 480 viewsCatullus

Have the government failed? on 20:24 - Apr 30 by londonlisa2001

Are deaths in care homes included by Italy or Spain? Have Germany started including any deaths without testing when alive or via post mortem or started performing post mortem testing on people as yet?


I still don't believe the Chinese numbers either, I reckon they are still hiding stuff.

Just my opinion, but WTF do I know anyway?
Blog: In, Out, in, out........

0
Have the government failed? on 10:42 - May 1 with 468 viewsDr_Winston

Have the government failed? on 10:31 - May 1 by Catullus

I still don't believe the Chinese numbers either, I reckon they are still hiding stuff.


Think that's pretty much a given. I'd be surprised if the Chinese figures aren't at least ten times higher in reality.

Another thing to consider is demographics. Considering the as yet unexplained and disproportionate impact of the virus on BAME (especially Afro-Carribean) does anyone know the percentages in places like Madrid and Milan compared to say London or Birmingham? Or even New York?

There's lots we just simply don't understand as yet.

Pain or damage don't end the world. Or despair, or f*cking beatings. The world ends when you're dead. Until then, you got more punishment in store. Stand it like a man... and give some back.

0
Have the government failed? on 10:47 - May 1 with 463 viewsCatullus

Have the government failed? on 10:26 - May 1 by controversial_jack

We have done just a third of the tests that France, has, yet me have more cases and we are not far behind Italy.So if we had done the same amount of testing as they have our figures would be through the roof. As i stated; shocking figures today.


But aren't percentages irrelevant?

Just my opinion, but WTF do I know anyway?
Blog: In, Out, in, out........

0

Have the government failed? on 10:52 - May 1 with 460 viewsJoe_bradshaw

Has the Welsh Government failed on testing?

They were shouting about the fact that they were doing more tests per head of population than England three or four weeks ago. Now England are doing 80,000 tests per day and rising rapidly. Wales are doing 1,000 tests per day and rising very slowly.

What’s the rationale here? If test, test, test was right in the first week of April why isn’t it in the first week of May?

Planet Swans Prediction League Winner Season 2013-14. Runner up 2014_15.
Poll: How many points clear of relegation will we be on Saturday night?

1
Have the government failed? on 10:57 - May 1 with 453 viewscontroversial_jack

Have the government failed? on 10:47 - May 1 by Catullus

But aren't percentages irrelevant?


yes, it's totals that matter
0
Have the government failed? on 11:04 - May 1 with 443 viewsCatullus

Have the government failed? on 10:57 - May 1 by controversial_jack

yes, it's totals that matter


In a recent survey nobody answered but 100% of them agreed with you.

Just my opinion, but WTF do I know anyway?
Blog: In, Out, in, out........

0
Have the government failed? on 11:39 - May 1 with 421 viewsA_Fans_Dad

Have the government failed? on 10:42 - May 1 by Dr_Winston

Think that's pretty much a given. I'd be surprised if the Chinese figures aren't at least ten times higher in reality.

Another thing to consider is demographics. Considering the as yet unexplained and disproportionate impact of the virus on BAME (especially Afro-Carribean) does anyone know the percentages in places like Madrid and Milan compared to say London or Birmingham? Or even New York?

There's lots we just simply don't understand as yet.


There may be a simple explanation for the excess BAME mortality, they can suffer with Vitamin D deficiency due to their skin colour.
They do not absorb UV light well in the Northern Hemisphere.
There have been a couple reports on low Vit D & because of it low immunity being a major factor.
The latest one from Indonesia showed that 96% of those that died (with co-morbities) had very low Vit D.
Only 7% of survivors had low Vit D.
http://joannenova.com.au/2020/05/indonesian-study-low-vitamin-d-patients-ten-tim

It can be a bit slow loading.
0
Have the government failed? on 12:01 - May 1 with 403 viewscontroversial_jack

Have the government failed? on 11:04 - May 1 by Catullus

In a recent survey nobody answered but 100% of them agreed with you.


According to some on here, the more tests we do the higher the positive results, therefore if we did the same as other countries we would have far more cases
0
Login to get fewer ads


Have the government failed? on 12:17 - May 1 with 384 viewsKilkennyjack



Piers goes for Johnson......

‘Beware of the risen people’ ........🍀🇮🇪 💚 Dim byd grêt am brydain 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁷󠁬󠁳󠁿🇪🇺

0
Have the government failed? on 13:16 - May 1 with 358 viewslondonlisa2001

Have the government failed? on 12:01 - May 1 by controversial_jack

According to some on here, the more tests we do the higher the positive results, therefore if we did the same as other countries we would have far more cases


It’s not according to some on here, it’s according to basic maths. But we wouldn’t HAVE more cases, we would KNOW about more cases. If we didn’t test anyone we’d have no cases.

It’s really not difficult to understand, one would think.
0
Have the government failed? on 13:35 - May 1 with 349 viewsOldjack

Have the government failed? on 12:17 - May 1 by Kilkennyjack



Piers goes for Johnson......


Speaks his mind and he don't like him or Trump

Prosser the Tosser dwells on Phil's bum hole like a rusty old hemorrhoid ,fact You Greedy Bastards Get Out Of OUR Club!

0
Have the government failed? on 13:37 - May 1 with 345 viewscontroversial_jack

Have the government failed? on 13:16 - May 1 by londonlisa2001

It’s not according to some on here, it’s according to basic maths. But we wouldn’t HAVE more cases, we would KNOW about more cases. If we didn’t test anyone we’d have no cases.

It’s really not difficult to understand, one would think.


Of course we wouldn't have more cases as many are mild and some even asymptomatic, but we would know about them, and that would make our figures look even worse than they are in comparison to other countries.

This then would show that our govt has failed miserably as this topic asks. Do you get it now?
0

Have the government failed? on 14:09 - May 1 with 329 viewschad

Failure may be difficult to diagnose, before we have defined success (or at least acceptable performance in the circs).

Failure could be ever going into lockdown, if we cannot get out of it without going back to square 1

We just don’t know, unsurprisingly we can identify individual things where lessons need to be learned now. But failure as a whole needs the benefit of hindsight.


Edit: this post is based on a comment by Neath_Jack on page 2. But it is certainly worth repeating
[Post edited 1 May 17:59]
0
Have the government failed? on 15:52 - May 1 with 289 viewslondonlisa2001

Have the government failed? on 13:37 - May 1 by controversial_jack

Of course we wouldn't have more cases as many are mild and some even asymptomatic, but we would know about them, and that would make our figures look even worse than they are in comparison to other countries.

This then would show that our govt has failed miserably as this topic asks. Do you get it now?


You continue to miss the point.

We know that the real number of cases in this country are many multiples of the number recorded. We have been told that since the start. And we have the same (ish) mortality rate as everywhere else, one would assume.

So it follows that if we have more deaths than Germany (for example) then we have more cases than Germany. Testing simply allows us to see detail. So rather than knowing that 100,000 have the virus, we know which 100,000 have the virus.

As I’ve said repeatedly, what is increasingly obvious, is the virus was widespread in the UK before we knew it was widespread in the UK. Same situation in New York. This is unsurprising given London and New York are two of the most connected cities in the world. Data is supporting that, as we now know that when lockdown happened, where it was thought that 300 plus people had died, the reality (which was unknown) is that over 800 people had died. When the first UK death was reported, we’d already had 5 by then.

The reason much if this has happened, is because the virus was here before anyone knew about it.

The same doesn’t apply to New Zealand, or the Czech Republic, or wherever, as they are simply not connected in anything like the same way. Other European countries badly affected, like Belgium as an example - hugely internationally connected due to EU / NATO etc.
0

Have the government failed? on 16:15 - May 1 with 269 viewsItchySphincter

Back on topic, it appears to me that the government's 'herd immunity' stance has never really changed, I'm not sure what makes people think it has.....? .....and the longview is that in the absence of a medical cure or vaccine it is probably the only thing they have to cling to.

Now that the economy has shat the bed and the NHS has had it's test run for future waves we're going to see easing of restrictions very soon, and then it's going to be back to the Cummings plan of letting people die.

This is the government that Brexit gave you. We didn't need 10+ pages on this thread, there was only ever one answer.

https://www.fansnetwork.co.uk/football/swanseacity/forum/231026/3315278/
Poll: Bovril or Marmite......

1
Have the government failed? on 16:25 - May 1 with 264 viewsKilkennyjack

Have the government failed? on 15:52 - May 1 by londonlisa2001

You continue to miss the point.

We know that the real number of cases in this country are many multiples of the number recorded. We have been told that since the start. And we have the same (ish) mortality rate as everywhere else, one would assume.

So it follows that if we have more deaths than Germany (for example) then we have more cases than Germany. Testing simply allows us to see detail. So rather than knowing that 100,000 have the virus, we know which 100,000 have the virus.

As I’ve said repeatedly, what is increasingly obvious, is the virus was widespread in the UK before we knew it was widespread in the UK. Same situation in New York. This is unsurprising given London and New York are two of the most connected cities in the world. Data is supporting that, as we now know that when lockdown happened, where it was thought that 300 plus people had died, the reality (which was unknown) is that over 800 people had died. When the first UK death was reported, we’d already had 5 by then.

The reason much if this has happened, is because the virus was here before anyone knew about it.

The same doesn’t apply to New Zealand, or the Czech Republic, or wherever, as they are simply not connected in anything like the same way. Other European countries badly affected, like Belgium as an example - hugely internationally connected due to EU / NATO etc.


Thats just a cop out. We should have done so much better.

Better prep with better PPE available would have saved lives.
That goes back to 2016. No excuses.

We ignored the WHO clear test, test, test advice. No excuses.

We have SAGE offering the pure science when Dom Cummings was on it and influencing the advice given. No excuses.

We have the second most deaths in the world and our PM calls it an apparent success.

We have people going out of hospitals and into care homes without any test. No excuses.

And a clown PM who skips 5 Cobra meetings cos he cant be bothered with detail. No excuses.

And the have now missed their own testing target.

Lions led by donkeys.

‘Beware of the risen people’ ........🍀🇮🇪 💚 Dim byd grêt am brydain 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁷󠁬󠁳󠁿🇪🇺

0
Have the government failed? on 16:26 - May 1 with 263 viewslondonlisa2001

Have the government failed? on 16:15 - May 1 by ItchySphincter

Back on topic, it appears to me that the government's 'herd immunity' stance has never really changed, I'm not sure what makes people think it has.....? .....and the longview is that in the absence of a medical cure or vaccine it is probably the only thing they have to cling to.

Now that the economy has shat the bed and the NHS has had it's test run for future waves we're going to see easing of restrictions very soon, and then it's going to be back to the Cummings plan of letting people die.

This is the government that Brexit gave you. We didn't need 10+ pages on this thread, there was only ever one answer.


Cummings apparently argued for a lockdown before the scientists wanted one...The scientists who attended Sage have said as much.

We haven’t been operating a herd immunity policy - we’ve been on lockdown for what, 5 weeks now? And we have furlough schemes, loans, business rate relief, VAT deferral schemes, corporation tax deferral schemes etc etc. None of that is herd immunity.

In the absence of a medical cure though, herd immunity is the only longer term option. Achieved hopefully through a vaccine. the alternative is locking us all up for ever.

I say all that as someone that argued continually and vehemently against this government and still do.
0
Have the government failed? on 16:33 - May 1 with 257 viewscontroversial_jack

Have the government failed? on 15:52 - May 1 by londonlisa2001

You continue to miss the point.

We know that the real number of cases in this country are many multiples of the number recorded. We have been told that since the start. And we have the same (ish) mortality rate as everywhere else, one would assume.

So it follows that if we have more deaths than Germany (for example) then we have more cases than Germany. Testing simply allows us to see detail. So rather than knowing that 100,000 have the virus, we know which 100,000 have the virus.

As I’ve said repeatedly, what is increasingly obvious, is the virus was widespread in the UK before we knew it was widespread in the UK. Same situation in New York. This is unsurprising given London and New York are two of the most connected cities in the world. Data is supporting that, as we now know that when lockdown happened, where it was thought that 300 plus people had died, the reality (which was unknown) is that over 800 people had died. When the first UK death was reported, we’d already had 5 by then.

The reason much if this has happened, is because the virus was here before anyone knew about it.

The same doesn’t apply to New Zealand, or the Czech Republic, or wherever, as they are simply not connected in anything like the same way. Other European countries badly affected, like Belgium as an example - hugely internationally connected due to EU / NATO etc.


I agree that the virus was here well before January. Myself and Mrs CJ had all the symptoms late December Mrs CJ works on the Corona ward at a local hosp and she believes we had it, although she's not a doc and there were no tests available then.

As for Belgium, they had a huge Carnival just as this pandemic was getting under way, and they also counted all the deaths, including those in care homes. The Czech republic, shut it's borders quickly, and anyone in public had to wear masks.

New Zealand did a great job, however there's a theory that this virus doesn't like the heat or humidity, so as we have come out of winter and into what passes for a summer it may help it decline. In the Southern hemisphere it's the opposite and they are now going into their winter, so it may increase there.

I hope this is not the case, as it's likely the virus will return here as we go into our winter once again.
0
Have the government failed? on 16:34 - May 1 with 256 viewslondonlisa2001

Have the government failed? on 16:25 - May 1 by Kilkennyjack

Thats just a cop out. We should have done so much better.

Better prep with better PPE available would have saved lives.
That goes back to 2016. No excuses.

We ignored the WHO clear test, test, test advice. No excuses.

We have SAGE offering the pure science when Dom Cummings was on it and influencing the advice given. No excuses.

We have the second most deaths in the world and our PM calls it an apparent success.

We have people going out of hospitals and into care homes without any test. No excuses.

And a clown PM who skips 5 Cobra meetings cos he cant be bothered with detail. No excuses.

And the have now missed their own testing target.

Lions led by donkeys.


No, it’s not a cop out.

Answer me this. It’s a simple question In two parts so don’t avoid it, or change the subject, or anything else.

Do you think you are more likely to catch the virus in central London or in Ammanford?

Why is that the case?
0
Have the government failed? on 16:38 - May 1 with 251 viewsItchySphincter

Have the government failed? on 16:26 - May 1 by londonlisa2001

Cummings apparently argued for a lockdown before the scientists wanted one...The scientists who attended Sage have said as much.

We haven’t been operating a herd immunity policy - we’ve been on lockdown for what, 5 weeks now? And we have furlough schemes, loans, business rate relief, VAT deferral schemes, corporation tax deferral schemes etc etc. None of that is herd immunity.

In the absence of a medical cure though, herd immunity is the only longer term option. Achieved hopefully through a vaccine. the alternative is locking us all up for ever.

I say all that as someone that argued continually and vehemently against this government and still do.


I haven't 'heard' what the scientists at SAGE said re Cummings advocating early lockdown but I have heard quotes attributed to him along the lines of 'protect the economy at all costs, and if a few old people die.....'. We've all heard a lot of things.

I didn't say herd immunity was 'policy' either - it's along term goal, and in the absence of a cure/vaccine it's still the long term goal.

We won't be locked up forever, we won't even be locked up much longer.

https://www.fansnetwork.co.uk/football/swanseacity/forum/231026/3315278/
Poll: Bovril or Marmite......

0
Have the government failed? on 16:39 - May 1 with 250 viewslondonlisa2001

Have the government failed? on 16:33 - May 1 by controversial_jack

I agree that the virus was here well before January. Myself and Mrs CJ had all the symptoms late December Mrs CJ works on the Corona ward at a local hosp and she believes we had it, although she's not a doc and there were no tests available then.

As for Belgium, they had a huge Carnival just as this pandemic was getting under way, and they also counted all the deaths, including those in care homes. The Czech republic, shut it's borders quickly, and anyone in public had to wear masks.

New Zealand did a great job, however there's a theory that this virus doesn't like the heat or humidity, so as we have come out of winter and into what passes for a summer it may help it decline. In the Southern hemisphere it's the opposite and they are now going into their winter, so it may increase there.

I hope this is not the case, as it's likely the virus will return here as we go into our winter once again.


But te Czech Republic also doesn’t have tens, possibly hundreds of thousands of Chinese visitors. Neither does New Zealand.

Our biggest problem here was that it was everywhere before anyone knew. Whether it was before a January, I’ve no idea, but it was certainly widespread in January and February. They’ve proved that now. Same in New York, by the time Trump shut the doors to China, it was everywhere, so it had no effect.

Hope your wife stays safe - thank her from all of us for what she’s doing. Seriously.
0
Have the government failed? on 16:42 - May 1 with 239 viewslondonlisa2001

Have the government failed? on 16:38 - May 1 by ItchySphincter

I haven't 'heard' what the scientists at SAGE said re Cummings advocating early lockdown but I have heard quotes attributed to him along the lines of 'protect the economy at all costs, and if a few old people die.....'. We've all heard a lot of things.

I didn't say herd immunity was 'policy' either - it's along term goal, and in the absence of a cure/vaccine it's still the long term goal.

We won't be locked up forever, we won't even be locked up much longer.


There have been many reports in the past few days that contrary to what people may have thought (myself included), he was the person who most pushed for a lockdown as early as possible.

In the long run, every country in the world must have herd immunity as their goal as it’s the only possible outcome.

I think we’ll be locked up for a bit yet - more will ignore that of course, but they’re concerned about the uptick in Germany.
0
Have the government failed? on 16:51 - May 1 with 229 viewsDr_Winston

Have the government failed? on 16:42 - May 1 by londonlisa2001

There have been many reports in the past few days that contrary to what people may have thought (myself included), he was the person who most pushed for a lockdown as early as possible.

In the long run, every country in the world must have herd immunity as their goal as it’s the only possible outcome.

I think we’ll be locked up for a bit yet - more will ignore that of course, but they’re concerned about the uptick in Germany.


We're at the point now where Cummings will be blamed for everything whether he's responsible or not. He's a convenient boogyman/scapegoat depending upon your leaning.

You are correct about the herd immunity. It's the only way out of this either by natural process or vaccination. How we get there is the hard part. I'm hoping that testing figures demonstrate a wider spread and subsequent immunity than previously believed which will allow a greater loosening of restrictions before a vaccine arrives.

I think we'll get an announcement of a few small relaxation measures soon, probably for a date in the future. That gives people some hope of a return to normality but still buys another week or two of lockdown.

Pain or damage don't end the world. Or despair, or f*cking beatings. The world ends when you're dead. Until then, you got more punishment in store. Stand it like a man... and give some back.

0
Have the government failed? on 16:52 - May 1 with 227 viewscontroversial_jack

Have the government failed? on 16:39 - May 1 by londonlisa2001

But te Czech Republic also doesn’t have tens, possibly hundreds of thousands of Chinese visitors. Neither does New Zealand.

Our biggest problem here was that it was everywhere before anyone knew. Whether it was before a January, I’ve no idea, but it was certainly widespread in January and February. They’ve proved that now. Same in New York, by the time Trump shut the doors to China, it was everywhere, so it had no effect.

Hope your wife stays safe - thank her from all of us for what she’s doing. Seriously.


The Czech republic, particularly Prague has thousands of Chinese and Italian tourists visiting. Every time i have been there, they seem to be everywhere

Thank you for your kind words, regarding my wife.
0
Have the government failed? on 16:53 - May 1 with 225 viewschad

Have the government failed? on 16:15 - May 1 by ItchySphincter

Back on topic, it appears to me that the government's 'herd immunity' stance has never really changed, I'm not sure what makes people think it has.....? .....and the longview is that in the absence of a medical cure or vaccine it is probably the only thing they have to cling to.

Now that the economy has shat the bed and the NHS has had it's test run for future waves we're going to see easing of restrictions very soon, and then it's going to be back to the Cummings plan of letting people die.

This is the government that Brexit gave you. We didn't need 10+ pages on this thread, there was only ever one answer.


And what gave France, Italy and Spain their governments?
0
About Us Contact Us Terms & Conditions Privacy Cookies Advertising
© FansNetwork 2020