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Have the government failed? 08:00 - Apr 27 with 27665 viewsRiscaJack

Can the more educated posters on this forum give me some opinions on this?

For me it looks like a complete disgrace from the start, no leadership, promises not kept, flights still coming into country from badly hit parts of world, using the excuse of "scientific advice" for not postponing the likes of Cheltenham Festival, Liverpool v Madrid, music gigs. We watched what was happening in Italy, I just can't find any excuses for them.

JENKINS OUT

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Have the government failed? on 18:40 - May 15 with 824 viewsCatullus

Have the government failed? on 17:19 - May 15 by londonlisa2001

No, there’s really not unless you’re insane...


Do I really have to point you in the direction of 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue, POTUS is just itching for a reason to have a go at China! And to be fair, calling him insane doesn't seem to cover it!

Not that I think the Donald reads this site but putting that address up might just flag up this post somewhere!

Just my opinion, but WTF do I know anyway?
Blog: In, Out, in, out........

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Have the government failed? on 18:55 - May 15 with 808 viewsmajorraglan

BBC now reporting that the Government is backtracking on the French demotion re quarantine. So people entering the country from the ROI will still be allowed in without a requirement to quarantine, but British holiday makers going abroad will have to quarantine on return. Presumably a British citizen (or anyone else for that matter) returning from a holiday anywhere in the World won’t have to quarantine if they arrive back via the ROI. Bizarre.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-52682411
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Have the government failed? on 20:22 - May 15 with 775 viewsNortbankboy

Have the government failed? on 18:55 - May 15 by majorraglan

BBC now reporting that the Government is backtracking on the French demotion re quarantine. So people entering the country from the ROI will still be allowed in without a requirement to quarantine, but British holiday makers going abroad will have to quarantine on return. Presumably a British citizen (or anyone else for that matter) returning from a holiday anywhere in the World won’t have to quarantine if they arrive back via the ROI. Bizarre.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-52682411


Obviously you can't catch it from people from France and ireland.
What load of ballox
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Have the government failed? on 10:27 - May 17 with 668 viewsKilkennyjack


‘Beware of the risen people’ ........🍀🇮🇪 💚 Dim byd grêt am brydain 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁷󠁬󠁳󠁿🇪🇺

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Have the government failed? on 10:31 - May 17 with 663 viewsZaxx

Have the government failed? on 10:27 - May 17 by Kilkennyjack



Hardly surprising that folk who live outside London are losing confidence in governmental decisions really ...
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Have the government failed? on 10:38 - May 17 with 651 viewsKilkennyjack

Have the government failed? on 10:31 - May 17 by Zaxx

Hardly surprising that folk who live outside London are losing confidence in governmental decisions really ...


When Hancock lied about tbe 1000,000 tests, then any remaining trust simply disappeared.

I think people would have understood the truth.

‘Beware of the risen people’ ........🍀🇮🇪 💚 Dim byd grêt am brydain 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁷󠁬󠁳󠁿🇪🇺

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Have the government failed? on 12:25 - May 17 with 609 viewslondonlisa2001

Have the government failed? on 10:31 - May 17 by Zaxx

Hardly surprising that folk who live outside London are losing confidence in governmental decisions really ...


London didn’t vote for these idiots in the first place.

London locked down of its own accord before it was imposed as we could all see it was needed and has tended to follow the lockdown more strictly (if you look at transport information). Not in every case, but generally.

Being ahead of the curve in infections means we are still ahead the ‘other side’. It’s not anything to do with confidence in the government.
[Post edited 17 May 12:26]
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Have the government failed? on 12:28 - May 17 with 604 viewslondonlisa2001

Have the government failed? on 10:38 - May 17 by Kilkennyjack

When Hancock lied about tbe 1000,000 tests, then any remaining trust simply disappeared.

I think people would have understood the truth.


The situation in Wales hasn’t been much different. In many ways, it’s been worse.

I agree with you about the comms - it’s been dreadful throughout.
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Have the government failed? on 12:52 - May 17 with 585 viewsNotLoyal

Poison chalice, no govt would have done any better.

Everyone thinks someone is a cûnt, even those who they don’t thinks are cûnts are cûnts to someone else.
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Have the government failed? on 13:32 - May 17 with 558 viewsmonmouth

Have the government failed? on 12:52 - May 17 by NotLoyal

Poison chalice, no govt would have done any better.


True.

Except every other government in the world except Trumps, that is.

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Have the government failed? on 13:43 - May 17 with 542 viewslondonlisa2001

Have the government failed? on 13:32 - May 17 by monmouth

True.

Except every other government in the world except Trumps, that is.


By what measure?

And there isn’t a measure where the US has done worst on health outcomes either that I’ve seen (absolute numbers can’t be a measure that’s reasonable to use). Where the US has potentially done worst is economic outcomes for its citizens. We’ve not done at all badly on that. Far better than I’d have imagined.
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Have the government failed? on 13:50 - May 17 with 530 viewsexiledclaseboy

Have the government failed? on 13:43 - May 17 by londonlisa2001

By what measure?

And there isn’t a measure where the US has done worst on health outcomes either that I’ve seen (absolute numbers can’t be a measure that’s reasonable to use). Where the US has potentially done worst is economic outcomes for its citizens. We’ve not done at all badly on that. Far better than I’d have imagined.


Well if you take the official measures (which after all is all we’ve got) we’re a shambles. Anything else is just guesswork and obfuscation.

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Have the government failed? on 13:56 - May 17 with 519 viewslondonlisa2001

Have the government failed? on 13:50 - May 17 by exiledclaseboy

Well if you take the official measures (which after all is all we’ve got) we’re a shambles. Anything else is just guesswork and obfuscation.


Of course we’re a shambles. We’ve had dreadful responses on testing and care homes in particular.

That’s not the point being being made. You can’t on the one hand say we’re the worst apart from the US and then say you can’t use guesswork when guesswork is being applied to most other countries to make the statement in the first place.

One thing we’re not worst at is getting hold of very complete official stats very quickly. We’re doing it miles quicker than many other places which is one reason we look sh*t in comparison.

The excess deaths stats will be the only ones that give a true picture. These will, of course, change. We are currently seeing lower than average excess deaths.

Edited - for the avoidance of doubt, when I say currently, in the last couple of weeks. The huge excess deaths we had in March and April gave a cumulative number that will gradually decrease over the next few months.
[Post edited 17 May 13:59]
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Have the government failed? on 14:08 - May 17 with 501 viewsexiledclaseboy

Read the whole thread. It’s very funny.


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Have the government failed? on 14:19 - May 17 with 489 viewssmoulder

Have the government succeeded ?
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Have the government failed? on 14:32 - May 17 with 466 viewsZaxx

Have the government failed? on 12:25 - May 17 by londonlisa2001

London didn’t vote for these idiots in the first place.

London locked down of its own accord before it was imposed as we could all see it was needed and has tended to follow the lockdown more strictly (if you look at transport information). Not in every case, but generally.

Being ahead of the curve in infections means we are still ahead the ‘other side’. It’s not anything to do with confidence in the government.
[Post edited 17 May 12:26]


As you say, London are ahead of the curve, thus other regions who still have higher virus reproduction rates are being dragged along with the policy determined in London for London.
Do you really think that those on Tee-side, for example, think that England's policy is focused on their plight or determined by the fact that it's a lot safer to begin easing lockdown in London?
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Have the government failed? on 14:36 - May 17 with 459 viewsLeonWasGod

Have the government failed? on 14:08 - May 17 by exiledclaseboy

Read the whole thread. It’s very funny.



They've had quite a week, although he's missed a few:

- Boris lying to the Commons about telling care homes it was unlikely for them to suffer infections, being corrected by the opposition and then taking to social media to smear the opposition and double down on the lie.

- Hancock repeating the lie that they had acted early to protect care homes, on live TV despite documented evidence it was a lie.

- Making it possible for estate agents and strangers to enter your house, but not for your family if they don't already live with you.
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Have the government failed? on 14:40 - May 17 with 451 viewsmonmouth

Have the government failed? on 13:43 - May 17 by londonlisa2001

By what measure?

And there isn’t a measure where the US has done worst on health outcomes either that I’ve seen (absolute numbers can’t be a measure that’s reasonable to use). Where the US has potentially done worst is economic outcomes for its citizens. We’ve not done at all badly on that. Far better than I’d have imagined.


By what I would argue is a better hypothetical measure than one that says

"Poison chalice, no govt would have done any better."

That implies they've made no mistakes that other governments would not have made, if they operated with our circumstance or that our government has taken beneficial actions that others would not have, in our circumstances. I think most other governments would have locked down a week earlier, cancelled Cheltenham etc, and not ignored what was coming despite the examples of Italy and Spain. Nor left care homes to become graveyards. I don't believe our government have taken any beneficial actions that others would not have. On the contrary, I believe they've been guided by self obsession, and not 'science' or public health.

I accept not every other government though...Bolsonaro for example, would have been no fun. I was being as hyperbolic (? never sounds right) as the original statement.

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Have the government failed? on 14:51 - May 17 with 432 viewslondonlisa2001

Have the government failed? on 14:32 - May 17 by Zaxx

As you say, London are ahead of the curve, thus other regions who still have higher virus reproduction rates are being dragged along with the policy determined in London for London.
Do you really think that those on Tee-side, for example, think that England's policy is focused on their plight or determined by the fact that it's a lot safer to begin easing lockdown in London?


Teeside will never see a conservative government acting in their best interests,

Which is why they were completely, utterly stupid to vote for them in the first place just because they didn’t understand brexit. As many pointed out at the time.

On the wider issue, it’s hard, it seems, to do what countries like Spain have managed to do and have lockdown measure eased at different times for different parts of the country depending on circumstance. People here can’t cope with it. Look how many are moaning that Wales and England are different, and that’s two separate countries with separate administrations in charge.

Imagine different measures in place throughout England. It’s what should have happened though. Going in to lockdown as well. As we went in to lockdown too late for London (although people largely too it upon themselves to lockdown voluntarily) and are coming out too early for some parts of the North.
Wales and Scotland haven’t come out of lockdown, so not sure why people are concerned about it as much as they are. Keeping a complete England wide lockdown at present isn’t sensible though. We have low infection rates, it seems, in London with the lowest R rate in the UK by some distance. So getting at least some of the economy back makes sense, because economic devastation also costs lives. More lives than the virus quite possibly.
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Have the government failed? on 14:55 - May 17 with 426 viewslondonlisa2001

Have the government failed? on 14:40 - May 17 by monmouth

By what I would argue is a better hypothetical measure than one that says

"Poison chalice, no govt would have done any better."

That implies they've made no mistakes that other governments would not have made, if they operated with our circumstance or that our government has taken beneficial actions that others would not have, in our circumstances. I think most other governments would have locked down a week earlier, cancelled Cheltenham etc, and not ignored what was coming despite the examples of Italy and Spain. Nor left care homes to become graveyards. I don't believe our government have taken any beneficial actions that others would not have. On the contrary, I believe they've been guided by self obsession, and not 'science' or public health.

I accept not every other government though...Bolsonaro for example, would have been no fun. I was being as hyperbolic (? never sounds right) as the original statement.


Yes, no government would have done any better is ridiculous.

Whether a Corbyn government would have done better is more difficult to judge.

Genuine question though. Given that things such as testing, care homes, PPE have been devolved, do you think the Welsh government have done any better? I can’t see that they have to be honest. Nor Scotland. In fact, I’d argue that Scotland are doing more badly than anyone else at the moment.
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Have the government failed? on 14:56 - May 17 with 423 viewsKilkennyjack

Have the government failed? on 13:56 - May 17 by londonlisa2001

Of course we’re a shambles. We’ve had dreadful responses on testing and care homes in particular.

That’s not the point being being made. You can’t on the one hand say we’re the worst apart from the US and then say you can’t use guesswork when guesswork is being applied to most other countries to make the statement in the first place.

One thing we’re not worst at is getting hold of very complete official stats very quickly. We’re doing it miles quicker than many other places which is one reason we look sh*t in comparison.

The excess deaths stats will be the only ones that give a true picture. These will, of course, change. We are currently seeing lower than average excess deaths.

Edited - for the avoidance of doubt, when I say currently, in the last couple of weeks. The huge excess deaths we had in March and April gave a cumulative number that will gradually decrease over the next few months.
[Post edited 17 May 13:59]


One of the most shameful govt failures had been allowing NHS professionals to die from a lack of PPE. Especially if there is linkage to the the EU procurement of PPE that the uk govt chose not to participate in.

The shocking daily stats collection (ie non collection) and sharing has bern totally amateur hour from first to last.

The lies about the number of tests (completed 100,000), the importance of international comparisons, and the importance of the R number. The Johnson govt have put fake news above public health.

And where is that coward Johnson ? He is a shitehouse.

‘Beware of the risen people’ ........🍀🇮🇪 💚 Dim byd grêt am brydain 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁷󠁬󠁳󠁿🇪🇺

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Have the government failed? on 15:24 - May 17 with 401 viewslondonlisa2001

Have the government failed? on 14:56 - May 17 by Kilkennyjack

One of the most shameful govt failures had been allowing NHS professionals to die from a lack of PPE. Especially if there is linkage to the the EU procurement of PPE that the uk govt chose not to participate in.

The shocking daily stats collection (ie non collection) and sharing has bern totally amateur hour from first to last.

The lies about the number of tests (completed 100,000), the importance of international comparisons, and the importance of the R number. The Johnson govt have put fake news above public health.

And where is that coward Johnson ? He is a shitehouse.


Again, although I dislike this government intensely, I’d rather look at the facts.

A total of 28,000 (ish) people have died in hospital in the UK. Of those, approximately 5,000 have been of ‘normal’ working age (under 70 but not children).

A total of 144 NHS workers have died.

So NHS workers make up 3% of deaths of the working age population.

The NHS employs 5% of the UK workforce.

So there haven’t been more deaths than would statistically expected. It’s changed a bit by unemployment numbers (5% of the workforce is less than 5% of the working age population) but it’s changed a bit the other way by having more BAME employees, and also because deaths for people who have been essential workers (so haven’t been able to isolate to the same extent) have been higher.

Don’t get me wrong - any death at all caused by lack of PPE is utterly unacceptable - there will need to be an inquiry, as we’ve all already agreed. But the numbers don’t support the claim that this has been widespread.

One of the things that the scientists HAVE to start to look at is who is not dying of this (different to who is dying) as some of it makes little sense to me.

I’m really surprised that there hasn’t been higher numbers, for example, in supermarkets. Tesco, Sainsbury, Asda et al, employ tens of thousands of people that have been coming in to constant, 8 hours a day contact with hundreds of thousands of different people in shops. I’m sure that if, for example, Tesco had had 100 staff die who work on the tills, we’d have known about it. So why isn’t the number higher given the level of exposure to stuff we’ve all been told is risky? Being close to people, handling stuff they’ve handled. Their PPE has been non existent in many cases, particularly in the early days.

Some of this makes little sense.

The stats here by the way are comprehensive and quick. We get full excess death numbers within 2 weeks. Other countries are about 3 months behind.

Of course Johnson is missing. He always is.
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Have the government failed? on 15:27 - May 17 with 396 viewslondonlisa2001

Have the government failed? on 14:08 - May 17 by exiledclaseboy

Read the whole thread. It’s very funny.



I saw this on Facebook this morning - very funny.
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Have the government failed? on 15:28 - May 17 with 394 viewslondonlisa2001

Have the government failed? on 14:36 - May 17 by LeonWasGod

They've had quite a week, although he's missed a few:

- Boris lying to the Commons about telling care homes it was unlikely for them to suffer infections, being corrected by the opposition and then taking to social media to smear the opposition and double down on the lie.

- Hancock repeating the lie that they had acted early to protect care homes, on live TV despite documented evidence it was a lie.

- Making it possible for estate agents and strangers to enter your house, but not for your family if they don't already live with you.


The care homes issue has been the biggest scandal of this by a country mile. That and testing.
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Have the government failed? on 15:44 - May 17 with 376 viewsNotLoyal

Have the government failed? on 15:28 - May 17 by londonlisa2001

The care homes issue has been the biggest scandal of this by a country mile. That and testing.


This is what happens when private industry wants to make money from businesses that were once public owned. The blame lies equally with the govt and the owners of these businesses. Its easy to blame one side.

Everyone thinks someone is a cûnt, even those who they don’t thinks are cûnts are cûnts to someone else.
Poll: Who would you rather be in charge of the country during these times?

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